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Old 05-19-2017, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 99,079 times
Reputation: 113

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American cities and sports are inseparable. Since the founding of the USA, sports have played a vital role in various cities culture. Yes, I'm a sports nerd, but I think city sports culture has a place on City-Data.com. Various American cities get a great sense of pride from sports teams. And they contribute greatly to a regions culture and economy. What city do you feel has the best and most historic sports culture? It would often appear that the market size of each city plays a roll in the success of a professional sports team, but to what extent? Their is a old saying that you don't bring up religion, politics, or sports as a guest at a diner table. I think it's cute. Sports teams sometimes relocate to new cities and tarnish a city's pride. Some sports leagues in the past have gone bankrupt altogether. The MLB, NFL, NHL, and NBA are often called the Big Four, because they are the biggest and highest paying leagues of their kind in the world. Some experts prefer to refer to the notion of the Big Five, with the inclusion of the MLS, the professional American soccer league. But, European soccer leagues are far bigger business compared to American soccer.

I feel that baseball has played the greatest roll in a city's pride. During the Great Depression the nation turned to sports and sports heroes like Babe Ruth to feel happy about life, regardless of the economical condition they were in. My hometown team Cubbies just last year had claimed the 7th largest gathering in human history with 5 million people at their victory parade. As anyone can see sports are a major contributor to a city's pride. Without a doubt the two most beloved ball parks are Fenway Park and Wrigley Field. Both are over 100 years old. Baseball teams play 162 games a year and have an average attendance of 25,000-30,000 at every game. Some large markets have more than one team. But, more is not always better winning wise or when it comes to fan base size. More teams usually means less fans to go around. Here is a breakdown of the top ten "arguably" most viable professional sports markets in the USA.

1# NYC - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(3 teams) NBA(2 teams)
2# LA - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(2 teams) NBA(2 teams)
3# Chicago - MLB(2 teams) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
4# San Fran Bay Area - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
5# Boston - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
6# Philadelphia - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
7# D.C. - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
8# Dallas - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
9# Detroit - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
10# Miami - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)

Here is an "Incomplete" list of fans per MLB team in the link below
Baseballot: How Many Fans Does Each MLB Team Have?: The 2016 Baseball Census

So, which city do you think has the best sports culture?
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:57 PM
 
21,204 posts, read 30,412,852 times
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I don't think sports culture has anything to do with population or number of teams. Cities like St Louis, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Denver have long demonstrated sports cultures equal to or superior to most of the cities mentioned in your Top 10.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 99,079 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I don't think sports culture has anything to do with population or number of teams. Cities like St Louis, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Denver have long demonstrated sports cultures equal to or superior to most of the cities mentioned in your Top 10.
You're right! I'm just looking for conversation. The St Louis Cardinal have won many championships. It's to bad St. Louis lost the Rams to LA. Buffalo has a great history with the Bills. But, the Bills have the least valued franchise in the NFL according to Forbes. Denver has a big chunk of the western US. Denver has Utah, Colorado, and several other state populations root for the Broncos.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:33 PM
 
Location: New York NY
4,270 posts, read 6,355,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I don't think sports culture has anything to do with population or number of teams. Cities like St Louis, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Denver have long demonstrated sports cultures equal to or superior to most of the cities mentioned in your Top 10.
And I don't think that tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin lacks a sport culture either, even with a population of only 100,000.

Moreover, if you consider Div. I college sports-- and there is a very deep college sports culture -- there are lots of other smaller cities that you could name with a sports culture as intense as any of the big cities you mentioned; Auburn Ala., Gainesville Fla., Clemson S.C., College Station, Texas, Louisville Kent. (with the Derby as well) and so forth.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland area
277 posts, read 99,079 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
And I don't think that tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin lacks a sport culture either, even with a population of only 100,000.

Moreover, if you consider Div. I college sports-- and there is a very deep college sports culture -- there are lots of other smaller cities that you could name with a sports culture as intense as any of the big cities you mentioned; Auburn Ala., Gainesville Fla., Clemson S.C., College Station, Texas, Louisville Kent. (with the Derby as well) and so forth.
Keep in mind that a lot of public universities get state funding. A lot of colleges/universities purposfully located to low population areas for various reasons to keep their institutions as the focal point of the area. Like Notre Dame University is literally located in Notre Dame, Indiana in South Bend. A part of Notre Dames Law school firm is located in Chicago. Notre dame is only about 75 miles east of Chicago. But its in its own universe, no pun intended.

And about Green Bay, the packers are the only team in the US that don't have a single or shared ownership. Sure you have majority stakeholders, but the team is literally owned by like 50,000 people. Also, Green Bay has all of of the state of Wisconsin to root for them. Part of the Chicago Bears intense rivalry with the Packers goes to small town vs big town scenario. The Bears used to be in the small Illinois town of Decatur. But, they opted to move to a big city. While the Packers decided to stay in the small town of Green Bay. Also, Green Bay has a metro of 300,000 and everybody there is a Packers fan. People are seriously fanatical of the packers. They wear Packers ties to work, and wear Packers jerseys year round. Even the supermarkets have food dedicated to the Packers. If a Bears fan wears a jersey and goes to Green Bay during a game that they are not playing each other, (like my brother has done) seemingly nice people will look at you with hatred. I mean it, small town Green Bay people are super sweet, until you decide to voluntarily stick out like a sore thumb and wear a Bears jersey in a bar there. It's true, Green Bay fans are the most fanatical because half the time they happen to be part owners of the team. It's not like NYC and Boston where they hate each other but intermingle. I guarantee that the few Bears or Vikings fans that have had to relocate to the Green Bay metro face scorn from their bosses or employees. That really is how it is there. But I still love Wisconsin. Part of the Chicago metro extends into Wisconsin. And I guarantee you also that Kenosha, Wisconsin is one of the few places in the whole state, next to Milwaukee, where Bear fans and Packer fans intermingle. Almost all of Wisconsin is made of cheese... Cheese Heads.. Grant it I exaggerated a little bit, but not much..LoL

Last edited by AlwaysByChance; 05-19-2017 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:38 PM
 
149 posts, read 94,068 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
American cities and sports are inseparable. Since the founding of the USA, sports have played a vital role in various cities culture. Yes, I'm a sports nerd, but I think city sports culture has a place on City-Data.com. Various American cities get a great sense of pride from sports teams. And they contribute greatly to a regions culture and economy. What city do you feel has the best and most historic sports culture? It would often appear that the market size of each city plays a roll in the success of a professional sports team, but to what extent? Their is a old saying that you don't bring up religion, politics, or sports as a guest at a diner table. I think it's cute. Sports teams sometimes relocate to new cities and tarnish a city's pride. Some sports leagues in the past have gone bankrupt altogether. The MLB, NFL, NHL, and NBA are often called the Big Four, because they are the biggest and highest paying leagues of their kind in the world. Some experts prefer to refer to the notion of the Big Five, with the inclusion of the MLS, the professional American soccer league. But, European soccer leagues are far bigger business compared to American soccer.

I feel that baseball has played the greatest roll in a city's pride. During the Great Depression the nation turned to sports and sports heroes like Babe Ruth to feel happy about life, regardless of the economical condition they were in. My hometown team Cubbies just last year had claimed the 7th largest gathering in human history with 5 million people at their victory parade. As anyone can see sports are a major contributor to a city's pride. Without a doubt the two most beloved ball parks are Fenway Park and Wrigley Field. Both are over 100 years old. Baseball teams play 162 games a year and have an average attendance of 25,000-30,000 at every game. Some large markets have more than one team. But, more is not always better winning wise or when it comes to fan base size. More teams usually means less fans to go around. Here is a breakdown of the top ten "arguably" most viable professional sports markets in the USA.

1# NYC - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(3 teams) NBA(2 teams)
2# LA - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(2 teams) NBA(2 teams)
3# Chicago - MLB(2 teams) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
4# San Fran Bay Area - MLB(2 teams) NFL(2 teams) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
5# Boston - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
6# Philadelphia - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
7# D.C. - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
8# Dallas - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
9# Detroit - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)
10# Miami - MLB(1 team) NFL(1 team) NHL(1 team) NBA(1 team)

Here is an "Incomplete" list of fans per MLB team in the link below
Baseballot: How Many Fans Does Each MLB Team Have?: The 2016 Baseball Census

So, which city do you think has the best sports culture?

Los Angeles, San Francisco and Boston are way too high. Boston has notable attendance issues throughout their history with every team except the Red Sox. This has been gone over ad nauseam on this site. It's the most overrated sports town because they have won so much the last 17 years and it masks a lot of their fairweather fanbase tendencies. You also have Miami ahead of places like Buffalo.



Wrigley Field and Fenway Park are not beloved either. Before the renovation, Wrigley was a dump, and Fenway needs to be demolished. It's overpriced and full of pink hats with outdated amenities.

Old Yankee Stadium was built on a culture of winning. What culture of winning did Wrigley or Fenway build? They housed losing teams for 108 and 86 years. They're only revered today because there are no old ballparks left.

People need to realize, these famous stadiums like the Montreal Forum, Old Yankee Stadium, Madison Square Garden, etc. have housed notable events in sports history, and the first two have housed dynasties. What dynasties have Wrigley or Fenway housed? Up until recent memory, they were nothing special. All the sudden now, they're a big deal, not because of winning tradition or a ballpark magic, but because they're the only ones left. It's total BS.

What's the Cubs nickname? Lovable Losers? What were the Red Sox? The Sux?
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:22 PM
 
1,586 posts, read 1,543,837 times
Reputation: 2361
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalentedDrinker View Post
Wrigley Field and Fenway Park are not beloved either. Before the renovation, Wrigley was a dump, and Fenway needs to be demolished. It's overpriced and full of pink hats with outdated amenities.
Oh, come on. It is laughably inaccurate to say those ballparks "are not beloved." Not beloved by whom? By you? Fenway is easily one of my favorite ballparks and has been since I first visited in the '90s, when my dad bought terrible tickets from a scalper for an obscene price -- this was at least 10 years before the Red Sox' first World Series win since 1918. It's overpriced because people want to go (so technically, it's not overpriced). Here's a thought experiment: Imagine a headline on page 1 of the Boston Globe that it's going to be demolished, and imagine what the outcry would be like. Then tell me whether or not it's beloved.

I personally don't like Wrigley quite so much (haven't been there since the renovation), but it's not any less beloved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TalentedDrinker View Post
Old Yankee Stadium was built on a culture of winning. What culture of winning did Wrigley or Fenway build? They housed losing teams for 108 and 86 years. They're only revered today because there are no old ballparks left.
I went to games at Old Yankee Stadium many times. It sucked. This may be because it was renovated from 1974-75 to near unrecognizability (I wasn't alive, so I'm just guessing), so basically you were left with a lousy '70s-era stadium with little visual connection to the history. I was living in New York when they announced they were tearing it down, and it was actually kind of striking how little controversy there was. No kidding: People were just as upset about Shea.

You say Fenway and Wrigley are only revered because they're the only two old ballparks left as if it's a coincidence that they're the only two old ballparks left. They're the last two because they were two of the old ballparks people liked the most. (Of course, some others, such as Ebbets Field, were equally beloved but didn't survive for political and business reasons.) When I first got into baseball in the '80s, there were more old ballparks around, and people were still fetishizing those two all the time.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:41 PM
 
149 posts, read 94,068 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulevardofdef View Post
Oh, come on. It is laughably inaccurate to say those ballparks "are not beloved." Not beloved by whom? By you? Fenway is easily one of my favorite ballparks and has been since I first visited in the '90s, when my dad bought terrible tickets from a scalper for an obscene price -- this was at least 10 years before the Red Sox' first World Series win since 1918. It's overpriced because people want to go (so technically, it's not overpriced). Here's a thought experiment: Imagine a headline on page 1 of the Boston Globe that it's going to be demolished, and imagine what the outcry would be like. Then tell me whether or not it's beloved.

I personally don't like Wrigley quite so much (haven't been there since the renovation), but it's not any less beloved.

I went to games at Old Yankee Stadium many times. It sucked. This may be because it was renovated from 1974-75 to near unrecognizability (I wasn't alive, so I'm just guessing), so basically you were left with a lousy '70s-era stadium with little visual connection to the history. I was living in New York when they announced they were tearing it down, and it was actually kind of striking how little controversy there was. No kidding: People were just as upset about Shea.

You say Fenway and Wrigley are only revered because they're the only two old ballparks left as if it's a coincidence that they're the only two old ballparks left. They're the last two because they were two of the old ballparks people liked the most. (Of course, some others, such as Ebbets Field, were equally beloved but didn't survive for political and business reasons.) When I first got into baseball in the '80s, there were more old ballparks around, and people were still fetishizing those two all the time.

That's revisionist history. Before 2004 was 86 years of failure and nobody cared outside of New England. It was also pre-social media age. Fenway Park is a dump. I grew up playing baseball and have been to more than half of the league ballparks. Never thought Fenway was a must see. It's become one now because it's just old.

There is no history of winning there. That's what creates magical stadiums or must-see parks. Old Yankee Stadium was the "Cathedral of Baseball" for a reason. Countless World Series championships won there. The greatest ballplayers. Fenway Park's relevance started in 2004, at the height of the Yankees-Red Sox (now dead) rivalry. Nobody cared about Boston sports before 2000, outside of New England.

Wrigley is the same thing. I've been to a few Cubs games. Arguably the best atmosphere in baseball for a game, but it was dated and cramped.

Fenway is a marketing schtick. Overpriced seats with obstructed views inflated by low capacity. Stop acting like everyone cared about Fenway for decades. It's not true. Just like everyone supposedly cared about the Patriots before their dynasty (queue the Bledsoe interview about how low they were on the sports totem pole when he played there). Not to mention the notable fairweather attendance at TD Garden before the Celtics and Bruins won championships. (look up the attendance numbers, it's there, or if you want I'll simply post them for you). Boston's enjoyed a very very fortunate streak of success from all four teams, but it was a very different picture before the millennium. Anything else is like I said, total revisionist history. Bill Russell is the greatest sports figure in Boston history and he was never accepted because he was black. Wonderful job there.

Philadelphia is a better sports town, and I can't stand Philadelphia sports. They eat Boston fans for breakfast.

Last edited by JMT; 05-20-2017 at 08:47 AM.. Reason: language
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:53 AM
 
21,204 posts, read 30,412,852 times
Reputation: 19650
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Originally Posted by citylove101 View Post
And I don't think that tiny Green Bay, Wisconsin lacks a sport culture either, even with a population of only 100,000.
I agree and quite possibly the biggest bandwagon fan base ever assembled, with the Cowboys a close second.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:50 PM
 
56,696 posts, read 81,017,273 times
Reputation: 12530
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByChance View Post
You're right! I'm just looking for conversation. The St Louis Cardinal have won many championships. It's to bad St. Louis lost the Rams to LA. Buffalo has a great history with the Bills. But, the Bills have the least valued franchise in the NFL according to Forbes. Denver has a big chunk of the western US. Denver has Utah, Colorado, and several other state populations root for the Broncos.
On the other hand, the Bills has a very loyal following and it goes into parts of NW PA, Southern Ontario in Canada and nearby regions of Upstate NY. So, there are quite a few people within a reasonable distance.
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