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View Poll Results: Should the metros be combined into one mega-CSA?
Yes 7 11.11%
No 50 79.37%
Arguable either way 6 9.52%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 05-30-2017, 12:24 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,728 posts, read 6,137,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricPost View Post
The CSA does have some meaning. San Jose and San Francisco do share commuting and a media market for TV. There is no reason why Washington and Baltimore are not the same metro area. They should also be one media market as you can easily catch each other TV stations over the air. Even Providence and Boston. The latter two are divided only for political reasons.

San Jose only had 95,000 people in the 50s when TV media markets were defined or it'd easily be it's own media market for TV.

Philly and NY are used by travelers for air travel as well. Even in Chicago you see northern suburbanites flying to and from Mitchell in Milwaukee which is an easy coach bus ride that is longer in distance but shorter in time due to traffic. I've done it before.

The real problem is metro areas are based on counties. Does anyone really think someone living in Nevada next to the border of Idaho is in the Reno metro area? It is. Same with someone in California living next to Nevada is in the San Bernardino Metro area or the LA CSA.

The census urban area is a better start than metro areas and really with computers being what they are, they could be done by census blocks or zip codes now for better accuracy.

Soon Baltimore/Washington will overtake Chicago in CSA and having lived in both cities I can tell you this is right. The area is integrated enough to be one and it feels more aligned that LaPorte In (leaning towards Michigan and South Bend) and Kenosha which is part of Milwaukee media market.
Baltimore and DC most certainly do not feel like one area. Two separate media markets, two separate cultures, two separate spheres of influence. They're too independent of each other to feel like one metro. They really function and two metros in close proximity of one another. That's just what it is.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,148,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
CSA is the Unicorn of population metrics. It means virtually nothing in almost every case. Still for some reason I don't hate it as much as when people use city-pop. Sometime between 1993 and 2003 a statistician somewhere at the census bureau thought it was noteworthy that some counties have at least 15% but not 25% of their workforce commuting into a core metro. This was followed by homers on City-Data finding a new way to claim superiority and boost their city.

New York and Philly are 90 miles apart downtown to downtown. I don't see a scenario where they actually ever cross that commuting thresh hold. Even New York doesn't have enough gravity to pull 15% of Philly's commuters. I'd be surprised if it's above 10%. The subject matter of this poll is somewhat inane as if CSA's are decided by popular vote and not raw data.
They actually already meet the technical threshold to combine (Burlington County NJ is >25% into other Philly MSA counties and >15% into NYC counties) but not in the actual city counties (meaning Philadelphia and the 5 boroughs of NYC) and (probably) never would. Its the grey space in the middle that has a ton of overlap and in many places is suburbs of both of sorts. the closest actual city borders are only 46 miles (85 or so from city hall to city hall) apart and there are as many people that live in those 46 miles as live in the whole inner bay so pretty well developed. I believe that more people in absolutes commute from one MSA to another when compared to say Balt/DC (not sure on the Bay) but a much smaller percentage of the total as the base is much higher (the two current CSAs combined would be the ~ population of CA the state) population denominator. But these two most definitely intertwine and have a lot cross border activity and combined or not that just is but they have one enormous and one very large pole/draw in their cores.


That said the answer is still a strong no as they are both very distinct and large areas that are very close and overlap quite a bit
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:31 PM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,797,496 times
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Will never happen
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Old 06-05-2017, 05:02 AM
 
Location: SE Pennsylvania
368 posts, read 268,573 times
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NY & Philly will remain 2 separate metros with separate media markets, separate economies, and separate cultural identities (tho both northeastern culturally still different).

Although the cities are close, they are still too far for residents of both metros to commute daily (tho i do encounter some ppl who commute from philly to NY acouple times a week its not that common), and thats a major key to defining a metro area. Also the identities are too strong, proud, and pronounced.

Tho, many areas in New Jersey & Northeast PA are becoming a "overlap zone" between the Philly & NY metro areas i can say that. The NJ portions of both metros are starting to overlap, but as far as both metros as a whole, No they are not going to merge.

Philly has its own downtown (obviously not as large as Manhattan NY but still one of the largest in the country), its own cultural identity, own economy, and still too far. Now if Philly was its same size but as close to NYC as Newark is than that would be a different story, it would be a extra Bronx acouple miles west of Midtown- but its not sooooo.

Another thing is although it would never merge (atleast no time soon), Philly is gaining alot of former NYC residents, Philly is a much cheaper big city thats within short distance to NY. Its especially appealing for ppl looking for a grittier cheaper big city experience while still being close to loved ones back in NY. minorities escaping genteification and high prices, and hipsters lookin for the next cheap n gritty place to unknowingly gentrify.

Last edited by Spreadofknowledge; 06-05-2017 at 05:13 AM..
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:39 PM
 
870 posts, read 751,467 times
Reputation: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
CSA is the Unicorn of population metrics. It means virtually nothing in almost every case. Still for some reason I don't hate it as much as when people use city-pop. Sometime between 1993 and 2003 a statistician somewhere at the census bureau thought it was noteworthy that some counties have at least 15% but not 25% of their workforce commuting into a core metro. This was followed by homers on City-Data finding a new way to claim superiority and boost their city.
The thing is that the CSA sometimes reflects cultural geography better than an MSA does, and since people glom onto census data (since it is easily available) instead of more obvious forms of categorization of cultural areas (like DMAs, to cite an obvious example), those disparities become apparent from time to time.

That is to say, different areas of the US developed differently. New York and Philadelphia were two days carriage ride apart from each other at the time they were founded, you could maybe get between Baltimore and Washington within a single day of riding:



Those cities developed unique and strong identities in the era before the car and continued those identities long before the era of suburbanization brought their metros to each other's front doors. The CSA is a useless measure in this context.

However, by the time Riverside, California crested 100k people there were interstates that could get you to LA in an hour. It sprung up as an extension of suburban LA and only the continuation of that sprawl and industrial decentralization keeps it in it's own MSA. Certainly nobody who lives there identifies especially strongly with the Inland Empire MSA, they are just a farflung part of suburban LA in their minds. In these sprawly metros, even some Midwestern ones like Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint, the CSA is the best representation of what residents likely consider to be "local" to them.
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