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Old 06-19-2017, 11:36 AM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,520,550 times
Reputation: 1848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No.

This has been about you refusing to accept the fact that the ONLY thing 'Rust Belt' about Birmingham is its industrial past. Period.

There is absolutely nothing unique about its housing stock. You have been provided photographic proof by kind people with much more patience than me, yet all you do is back-pedal and then repeat your delusional views all over again.

Next time you jump on on I-20 to head over to Atlanta, you need to actually get off on one of the many handy exits provided.
No, there's various qualities about Birmingham that make it a Rust Belt/Legacy City. See, here it is again, trying to ignore facts because it doesn't include Atlanta. It's CLEARLY obvious that among the typical Southeastern cities, Birmingham is the outsider here, and various posters has made that same conclusion. The growth patterns in Atlanta and Birmingham are different, the physical development follows different patterns, sprawl is more of an issue in Atlanta than it is in Birmingham; even when speaking of the geographical features, Birmingham is significantly different in this area as well comparing more to cities like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and etc.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:08 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
797 posts, read 1,159,430 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Well first off, I gave my personal opinions on what I thought was the prototypical cities were across the US, and for the Southeast I put Atlanta because of the broad influences and similarities it has among Southeastern cities (Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh, Huntsville, etc.).

Birmingham doesn't fit that mold, and nor does it fit the mold with other Southeastern cities either, and that's fact. Even when bringing up geographic features, in comparison to Atlanta and other Southeastern cities, Birmingham's is far more intense and more influential of Birmingham's growth patterns (Streets, Housing, Density).

The Hillside communities were developed to add density to the Southside on Red Mountain, especially during the 70's/80's. Another reason while you'll find neighborhoods with SFH's, 70's/80's Apartments, and Dingbat developments. Within the Southeast this is distinctively unique to Birmingham.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4898...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5038...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4946...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4924...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4977...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5083...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5065...7i13312!8i6656

The Urban Layout, I mean seriously, I don't know why you'd bring that up. Compared to Atlanta's, it's obvious Birmingham's layout works better in this regard as well. Not saying it's ALL, but most Southeastern cities, including Atlanta are known for it's unorthodox layouts.

Birmingham's architecture, as before is also unique in comparison with Atlanta and the rest of the Southeast. I explained this earlier in the thread.

6 Miles into the Westside from Downtown
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5116...7i13312!8i6656

4 Miles into the Eastside
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5397...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5396...7i13312!8i6656

4 Miles into the Northside
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5523...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5513...7i13312!8i6656

2 Miles into the Southside
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5008...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4978...7i13312!8i6656

As you stated, "Birmingham's architecture, urban layout, and urban core size is not that unique, it has its quirks, as does any older Southern city, but it is not out of place, especially when compared to its next door neighbor, Atlanta." I don't know about you, but your typical Southeastern city does not look similar to those attributes and links above, not even Atlanta. Honestly, I think this is less about Birmingham, and more about Atlanta feeling left out. The only real similarities that can be linked is it's African American population and it's location, everything else either is a wash or can be debated.
You are just nitpicking every little thing you can about Birmingham and acting like it is the most unique thing that can't possibly be found in other southern cities. The unique thing about Birmingham is its hilly geography and how houses were built into that topography in certain neighborhoods. The random commercial buildings a few miles from downtown, the 1920s apartment buildings, the random ugly 1960s apartment buildings, the supposed superior urban density and diverse architecture, those are not unique nor is the amount of them or the intermixed diversity of them. Anybody from any city can go on about one certain aspect or another, about one neighborhood or another, it doesn't mean its unique and it doesn't mean that the city is out of place in its region.

I could post on and on with the streetviews, street fronting commercial corridors 4+ miles from downtown in Memphis or Atlanta or 1960s apartment buildings in Nashville but I think it is a little pointless. Birmingham is apart of a group of about 10-15 Southern cities that had decent pre-war populations and architecture, its architecture or historic urban core size are not unique to the South, it will be unique in some ways compared to a Charlotte or a Raleigh but not to the other 10 older cities in the South. Birmingham is much closer in architecture and urban core size to an Atlanta or Memphis than to a Cincinnati or Pittsburgh. In fact I think the case can be made that Birmingham is an Atlanta that did not see the extreme post-war growth, they had close populations from 1900-1940 (Atlanta a little bigger).

Last edited by Jimbo_1; 06-19-2017 at 05:21 PM..
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Old 06-19-2017, 07:57 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,520,550 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
You are just nitpicking every little thing you can about Birmingham and acting like it is the most unique thing that can't possibly be found in other southern cities. The unique thing about Birmingham is its hilly geography and how houses were built into that topography in certain neighborhoods. The random commercial buildings a few miles from downtown, the 1920s apartment buildings, the random ugly 1960s apartment buildings, the supposed superior urban density and diverse architecture, those are not unique nor is the amount of them or the intermixed diversity of them. Anybody from any city can go on about one certain aspect or another, about one neighborhood or another, it doesn't mean its unique and it doesn't mean that the city is out of place in its region.
How is it nitpicking when it's probably the most noticeable things about Birmingham that makes it unique from other Southeastern cities? there is nothing like the Westside of Birmingham in Memphis, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Nashville, and etc. There is nothing like Birmingham's Layout, History, Architecture, and etc. in any of these cities. That's like saying Indianapolis has similar Architecture to Detroit because you might find SOME similarities, but in actuality, it's different due to the amount and cultural significance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
Birmingham is apart of a group of about 10-15 Southern cities that had decent pre-war populations and architecture, its architecture or historic urban core size are not unique to the South, it will be unique in some ways compared to a Charlotte or a Raleigh but not to the other 10 older cities in the South. Birmingham is much closer in architecture and urban core size to an Atlanta or Memphis than to a Cincinnati or Pittsburgh.
Couldn't be more false, Memphis and Atlanta is much more sprawled than Birmingham; Birmingham's Urban Cores are also more cohesive as well, with Urban Centers of suburbs being in close distance. Also, in the South, there's a difference between a Commercial Corridor, and a Commercial DISTRICT. I gave examples of Commercial Districts, aka Urban Centers of those distinct neighborhoods.

This is a Commercial Corridor.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5610...7i13312!8i6656

But Commercial Districts such as Ensley, Woodlawn, Five Points, and etc. are Urban Centers that have their own businesses, city government buildings, growth patterns, etc. I highly doubt that this is a norm for Southeastern cities, no, I know this isn't a norm for Southeastern cities, not even for Memphis or Atlanta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
In fact I think the case can be made that Birmingham is an Atlanta that did not see the extreme post-war growth, they had close populations from 1900-1940 (Atlanta a little bigger).
How so when Birmingham and Atlanta both went in two totally different directions in terms of Pre-War growth? Birmingham's industry was significantly different from Atlanta's, which is one of the reasons why Birmingham went through a decline similar to the Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit's. Close population numbers means nothing, Atlanta was a transportation hub way before it landed that Airport deal, that was never Birmingham. The only comparison between Atlanta and Birmingham is that they both had large African American populations and they were both in Southern states. Charlotte is more of an Atlanta than Birmingham. Post-War, Birmingham had Blast Furnaces, Steel Mills, Iron Mills, and etc. all throughout the city; there was a time where smog was even a common occurrence.




As I mentioned before, you're really trying to force things when you place Birmingham and Atlanta within the same box. Sure, they might have SOME similarities, but there's more differences between the two, than they're similarities.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,293 posts, read 3,508,544 times
Reputation: 4464
Someone is in total denial, and has an alternative-reality impression of what Birmingham is - and isn't.

I'm done.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:26 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,520,550 times
Reputation: 1848
Of course saying a city is different from Atlanta, even in it's truths, somehow becomes an insult towards Atlanta itself; Atlanta posters do this all the time, it's honestly amazing lol. To quote another poster, "Birmingham isn't really "Old South" in the Savannah/Charleston sense but it isn't New South like Charlotte, ATL, or Tampa...not sure what term to use for it."

Or to resurrect an older thread.

Birmingham a smaller Atlanta?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Agreed...and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

I'm sure you could come up with a few more "similarities" (i.e. north side Atlanta burbs and south side Birmingham burbs), but largely, the two cities are very different...and not just due to size.

I don't know if there is a true "smaller Atlanta," but if I was to have to pick a candidate, I'd go with Charlotte.

I'm not sure if there is a truly good comparison as to what Birmingham is a "small version of," as it used to be one of the bigger cities in the south. It's a smaller version of a major rust belt city in a southern setting.
Oh but I'm in total denial? stop it.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,293 posts, read 3,508,544 times
Reputation: 4464
One major difference between Birmingham and Atlanta is the way Atlanta has whole-heartedly embraced adaptive reuse of it's historic industrial & commercial past. This started about 25 years ago, but has exploded in the past ten years.

Birmingham has joined the bandwagon very recently though, with the new Pizitz Department Store reno and the upcoming Alabama Power Plant* project - so kudos for getting with the program.

There are multiple examples scattered across Metro Atlanta, but the common theme is the love of old brick, glass and steel. This has spilled over into popular design for new buildings as well.

Just a few of examples from around town...

Old cotton mill converted to lofts: Fulton Cotton Mill

Aforementioned former Ford Model T factory, now lofts: http://www.fordfactorylofts.com/

Former Meatpacking plant, gutted & expanded into a mixed-use complex: Westside Provisions District - Atlanta, Georgia

Former Sears/Roebuck Southeastern warehouse/distribution center, now the uber-successful mixed-use Ponce City Market. At two million square feet, this is the largest brick structure in the SE. A mix of retail/restaurant/office/residential, this is by the same people behind the former Nabisco factory now known as Chelsea Market in NY: Ponce City Market

Former Ice Plant, now lofts: Ice House Lofts - Braden Fellman

* Alabama Power is owned by Atlanta-based Southern Company. This project was conceived, designed and is being managed from here. The same applies to the redevelopment of the old Georgia Power steam plant in Downtown Savannah. Yet more examples of Atlanta's positive influence on the region.

Last edited by JMatl; 06-19-2017 at 10:40 PM..
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:58 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
797 posts, read 1,159,430 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Someone is in total denial, and has an alternative-reality impression of what Birmingham is - and isn't.

I'm done.
And round and round the mulberry bush he goes. I tried, posted some streetviews and such but its a pointless endeavor, I give up. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but at least be based in reality, he is totally in his own delusional Birmingham bubble. It would be an interesting topic otherwise, I mean he does put a lot of time, effort, and thought into these posts.

I guess we just need to accept it. Birmingham developed in its own special bubble. It can't be compared to other southeastern cities, evidently they all developed just the other day and in no way can rival the architecture, history, architectural diversity, anti sprawl development, urban core size, density, and commercial districts of Birmingham (did I miss any?).
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,293 posts, read 3,508,544 times
Reputation: 4464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
And round and round the mulberry bush he goes. I tried, posted some streetviews and such but its a pointless endeavor, I give up. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but at least be based in reality, he is totally in his own delusional Birmingham bubble. It would be an interesting topic otherwise, I mean he does put a lot of time, effort, and thought into these posts.

I guess we just need to accept it. Birmingham developed in its own special bubble. It can't be compared to other southeastern cities, evidently they all developed just the other day and in no way can rival the architecture, history, architectural diversity, anti sprawl development, urban core size, density, and commercial districts of Birmingham (did I miss any?).
Nope, you didn't miss any.

It's an amazing hybrid of Chicago & Pittsburgh, and deserves to be on THE superior 'All must bow down' urban pedestal for the entire South.
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,420 posts, read 16,962,854 times
Reputation: 9512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo_1 View Post
And round and round the mulberry bush he goes. I tried, posted some streetviews and such but its a pointless endeavor, I give up. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but at least be based in reality, he is totally in his own delusional Birmingham bubble. It would be an interesting topic otherwise, I mean he does put a lot of time, effort, and thought into these posts.

I guess we just need to accept it. Birmingham developed in its own special bubble. It can't be compared to other southeastern cities, evidently they all developed just the other day and in no way can rival the architecture, history, architectural diversity, anti sprawl development, urban core size, density, and commercial districts of Birmingham (did I miss any?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Nope, you didn't miss any.

It's an amazing hybrid of Chicago & Pittsburgh, and deserves to be on THE superior 'All must bow down' urban pedestal for the entire South.
Well, if he wants to believe Birmingham is physically a "rust belt city" then let's give him that! Culturally and historically, Birmingham is about as Southern as a city can get ... and not the "good" kind of Southern either.

Unless he wants to come in here next and start arguing that Bull Conner and those fire hoses were just "misunderstood?"
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Old 06-19-2017, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,293 posts, read 3,508,544 times
Reputation: 4464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Well, if he wants to believe Birmingham is physically a "rust belt city" then let's give him that! Culturally and historically, Birmingham is about as Southern as a city can get ... and not the "good" kind of Southern either.

Unless he wants to come in here next and start arguing that Bull Conner and those fire hoses were just "misunderstood?"
Mic drop/
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