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Old 06-15-2017, 04:14 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,522,608 times
Reputation: 1848

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
WHAT THE HELL?! Atlanta has had "midrises and high rises" outside of its downtown core since the early 1900s, and the Savannah downtown and Victorian historic districts (everything between the river and Victory Drive) is NOTHING but rowhouses, 4-story brownstones, mid-rise apartment buildings and VERY DENSE single family homes built right on the street with service lanes (alleys) in the back.

In fact, Savannah is generally considered to have among the most diverse architecture of any city in the country, as well as one of the most brilliant city plans in the world.

Richard Longstreth explains Savannah’s architectural landscape – District

Savannah City Plan | New Georgia Encyclopedia

Nice try though ....

And you've obviously never been to Charleston or New Orleans either!
Well first off, when I mentioned the Southeast, Savannah never even even came in the back of my mind, or else I would've included it with the other cities who at least has a metro of over 400,000. Second, I specifically described the type of cities I was initially referring to in my other post. "Weather, Sprawl, Flora/Fauna or Topography." So why the hell would I include Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans, when 1. Charleston nor Savannah doesn't fit my description, and 2. New Orleans is not even in the Southeast, it's a Gulf Coast city.

Reading is fundamental.

Besides, I think you're confusing a Low-Rise, from a Mid-Rise, and a Mid-Rise, from a High-Rise; and you're also not understanding what diverse housing really is. I mean, you even stated that "Savannah downtown and Victorian historic districts (everything between the river and Victory Drive) is NOTHING but rowhouses, 4-story brownstones, mid-rise apartment buildings and VERY DENSE single family homes built right on the street with service lanes (alleys) in the back." On the other hand, Birmingham has Rowhouses, Mid-Rise Apartment Buildings, High-Rise Apartment Buildings, Detached SFH's built right on the street, Apartment Complexes, Triple Deckers, Villages, and etc. And that's just based of off the fact that Birmingham housing market developed in various eras.

Birmingham had High-Rises/Mid-Rises that were already built outside of it's Downtown decades ago.
6 Miles West of Downtown
4 Miles East of Downtown
3 Miles North of Downtown

Last edited by _OT; 06-15-2017 at 04:24 PM..
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Old 06-15-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,420 posts, read 16,970,511 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I'm glad you tackled it.

This dude has a propensity to depict Birmingham as a mini-Philadelphia or Chicago almost every chance he gets.
I've a known a few delusional Alabamans over the years, but this guy takes the prize!
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Old 06-15-2017, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,420 posts, read 16,970,511 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Well first off, when I mentioned the Southeast, Savannah never even even came in the back of my mind, or else I would've included it with the other cities who at least has a metro of over 400,000. Second, I specifically described the type of cities I was initially referring to in my other post. "Weather, Sprawl, Flora/Fauna or Topography." So why the hell would I include Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans, when 1. Charleston nor Savannah doesn't fit my description, and 2. New Orleans is not even in the Southeast, it's a Gulf Coast city.

Reading is fundamental.

Besides, I think you're confusing a Low-Rise, from a Mid-Rise, and a Mid-Rise, from a High-Rise; and you're also not understanding what diverse housing really is. I mean, you even stated that "Savannah downtown and Victorian historic districts (everything between the river and Victory Drive) is NOTHING but rowhouses, 4-story brownstones, mid-rise apartment buildings and VERY DENSE single family homes built right on the street with service lanes (alleys) in the back." On the other hand, Birmingham has Rowhouses, Mid-Rise Apartment Buildings, High-Rise Apartment Buildings, Detached SFH's built right on the street, Apartment Complexes, Triple Deckers, Villages, and etc. And that's just based of off the fact that Birmingham housing market developed in various eras.

Birmingham had High-Rises/Mid-Rises that were already built outside of it's Downtown decades ago.
6 Miles West of Downtown
4 Miles East of Downtown
3 Miles North of Downtown
You said Birmingham was the first city in the south with high rises outside its downtown, and the ONLY city in the south with rowhouses. Both of those statements are 100 percent blatantly FALSE ... no matter how hard you now try to "move the goalposts." At the White House, what you're doing is called ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

As for those links you shared ... what exactly are we supposed to be seeing there? Macon is more impressive than that!
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Old 06-15-2017, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,296 posts, read 3,513,713 times
Reputation: 4466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
You said Birmingham was the first city in the south with high rises outside its downtown, and the ONLY city in the south with rowhouses. Both of those statements are 100 percent blatantly FALSE ... no matter how hard you now try to "move the goalposts." At the White House, what you're doing is called ALTERNATIVE FACTS.

As for those links you shared ... what exactly are we supposed to be seeing there? Macon is more impressive than that!
Mic drop!

I actually like Birmingham, but this has just become ridiculous. The Baltimore Block rowhouses in Downtown Atlanta date from the 1880's, Birmingham was a large village then.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:17 AM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,522,608 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
You said Birmingham was the first city in the south with high rises outside its downtown, and the ONLY city in the south with rowhouses. Both of those statements are 100 percent blatantly FALSE ... no matter how hard you now try to "move the goalposts." At the White House, what you're doing is called ALTERNATIVE FACTS.
No I didn't, I CLEARLY stated, and I quote...

"Birmingham was one of the first, if not the first city within the Southeast to have Mid-Rises/High-Rises outside of it's Downtown Area."

"Not to mention the only city within the Southeast with Rowhouses, dense SFH's, Triple Deckers, and other representations of housing with diverse architecture. No other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta."

Everything I stated in my posts, are fact. Birmingham is a gritty, legacy city, with a large industrial background, that used to be a hub of business, retail, services that expanded throughout it's respective region. With various Urban cores becoming the focal point of it's distinctive neighborhood; those of which also were considered streetcar suburbs.

List of streetcar suburbs - Bhamwiki

However, since then, has experienced sustained job and population losses throughout the past 2/3 decades, which is seen through the Urban decay/blight. But in terms of physical growth, when compared to the Southeastern's mold of starting fresh and new, Birmingham already has those cores intact. With the physical fabric of those areas still intact, walkable urban texture and proximity to major institutions and employers create opportunities for residential redevelopment, which is most likely to drive future core rebuilding.

That being said above, as I mentioned before. When talking about the typical southeastern city, none of the one's I listed fit those same qualities as Birmingham, not even Atlanta. That was the initial point of the thread, to list and highlight the prototypical cities for each region. Which in this case, when it came to the Southeast, I instantly thought of Atlanta because it has developed the mold for Southeastern cities to follow and become influenced by; which doesn't include Birmingham.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
As for those links you shared ... what exactly are we supposed to be seeing there? Macon is more impressive than that!
Those links I shared are the "facts" I spoke of to support my claims. It's not about what's impressive, and what's not, that's all subjective and leads into an argument that's not even related to this thread. I'm simply just highlighting the differences between Birmingham, and the characteristics of a Southeastern City, If you can't understand that, please don't quote me anymore.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:20 AM
 
8 posts, read 4,044 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by biscuit_head View Post
Tampa has elements of Orlando, Houston...and then New Orleans. But there are too many things that make it atypical of the Gulf South and it doesn't share a lot culturally with New Orleans at all. I'd say that besides Orlando (just from them being in "Florida!" and all that comes with that), it shares the most similarities with Houston due to the sprawl, similar vegetation, the checkerboard layout of the older neighborhoods, Latino population, large port cities with heavy industry (O&G in Houston; Phosphates in Tampa Bay area), large transplant populations, and it really built up in the same era that Houston did with the advent of central AC.

HOWEVER, Tampa has a far larger Caribbean Latino population, far more transplants from the Northeast and Midwest, and feels a lot more "yankeefied" and whitebread than Houston, and while it sprawls a lot, it feels less sprawling than Houston, has a more antiquated freeway system, and people tend to stick to their side of the Bay or their part of town more than people in Houston do. Houston has a much more southern feel to it and has a strong Texan identity. Tampa has a stronger Florida identity, and although it has a lot more of a tourism industry than Houston. Also, the beaches are far nicer in Tampa Bay than just about anywhere in Texas.

Mobile and Pensacola would probably be better general representations of the Gulf South. Houston and New Orleans may be quintessential Gulf South cities, but they both have elements that make them stand out from the rest of the region. New Orleans is too unique and distinctive, but it has elements that influence a large swath of the Gulf South... Houston is faster-paced, far more cosmopolitan (New Orleans has a unique ethnic mix that started centuries ago, but it doesn't have the recent immigration population that Houston does).

tl; dr: There are a lot of similarities, but lots of nuances that make them very different from each other.
I think one the largest differences between Tampa and the rest of the Gulf Coast is that Tampa doesn't have a significant Black Urban Culture like you'll see in Houston or New Orleans.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,296 posts, read 3,513,713 times
Reputation: 4466
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
No I didn't, I CLEARLY stated, and I quote...

"Birmingham was one of the first, if not the first city within the Southeast to have Mid-Rises/High-Rises outside of it's Downtown Area."

"Not to mention the only city within the Southeast with Rowhouses, dense SFH's, Triple Deckers, and other representations of housing with diverse architecture. No other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta."

Everything I stated in my posts, are fact.
No, it's unbridled homerism at its worst and totally and factually untrue. Period.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:02 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
2,139 posts, read 1,432,789 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Everyone keeps saying Atlanta...but how?? For one thing, Atlanta is much more diverse than most of the south, it's loaded with Fortune 500's, has multiple CBDs, and there's a high concentration of millionaires and upper class. Everytime I go to Lenox Mall there's a string of Lambos parked outside. NYC is the only other place I've personally seen one. Plus no other southern cities get the exposure Atlanta gets: the tv show Atlanta, RHOA, all the mainstream rap coming out of Atlanta, CNN, Weather Channel, Turner, all the "made in Georgia", Tyler Perry, TWD, and Atlanta skyline constantly popping up in movies. That's not "prototypical."

And Atlanta is the only place in the south (except Miami) where you're gonna see a 400 foot condo tower next to low density residential homes. Try proposing this anywhere else in the south. There will be riots in the streets:



How is Atlanta "typical?" It's a very unique city, especially for the south. There's nothing else in the south like it. It's the undisputed hub of the south, but Atlanta is still it's own world. Like I said on the last page, I feel cities like Columbia, Greensboro, Augusta, Greenville, etc are more representative of most southern living.

But I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. I just dont see how Atlanta fits, personally. Unless I'm using "prototypical" wrong.
I get what your trying to get at but Atlanta is still the South, no way around that... True it's more diverse than the typical, has a Nice Skyline, companies, etc. but is still the south, still Country, still has those conservative view, laws in a Red Conservative state... Now is it a Big Southern City, "Yes" all day long, has it surpassed Neighbors like Birmingham, etc. yes, but still Southern and doesn't fit any where else. The smaller cities you listed up above should have never been mentioned, too small, I think this is more of a discussion of Big Regional Cities here... Now for Miami you might have a Great Argument!!
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:07 AM
 
29,944 posts, read 27,396,115 times
Reputation: 18522
Quote:
Originally Posted by oobanks View Post
I get what your trying to get at but Atlanta is still the South, no way around that... True it's more diverse than the typical, has a Nice Skyline, companies, etc. but is still the south, still Country, still has those conservative view, laws in a Red Conservative state... Now is it a Big Southern City, "Yes" all day long, has it surpassed Neighbors like Birmingham, etc. yes, but still Southern and doesn't fit any where else. The smaller cities you listed up above should have never been mentioned, too small, I think this is more of a discussion of Big Regional Cities here... Now for Miami you might have a Great Argument!!
He never said Atlanta wasn't Southern; he just said it wasn't a prototypical Southern city and that's a really good point.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:20 AM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,522,608 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Mic drop!

I actually like Birmingham, but this has just become ridiculous. The Baltimore Block rowhouses in Downtown Atlanta date from the 1880's, Birmingham was a large village then.
Yes, but those Baltimore Rowhouses are a National Register Historical Market, Which signifies the uniqueness of that type of housing in relation to Atlanta, and I respect that, and to be quite honest, I also never said Atlanta didn't have those things as well. But when we think about the Southeast and it's housing market, the initial reaction is not to ponder about to idea of multiple housing options being the norm. (Charlotte, Raleigh, Greenville, Nashville, Huntsville, Greensboro, etc.)

What's typical for the Southeast, isn't exactly typical for Birmingham. I mean you have the...

Rowhouses:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5056...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4952...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4956...7i13312!8i6656

Triple Deckers:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4921...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5052...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5046...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4947...7i13312!8i6656

Apartment Midrises/Highrises:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5058...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4980...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5040...7i13312!8i6656

Late 20th Century Apartment Complexes:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5143...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5078...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4949...7i13312!8i6656

SFH's and etc. etc. How exactly is this duplicated within the Southeast?
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