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Old 06-16-2017, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,421 posts, read 16,977,601 times
Reputation: 9513

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No, it's unbridled homerism at its worst and totally and factually untrue. Period.
Thank you!

Who knew Sean Spicer was a City-Data contributor?!
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,421 posts, read 16,977,601 times
Reputation: 9513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpier015 View Post
The bold statement is the only statement that I have been replying to. I still feel as though you are using a personal, self defined, definition of southeastern. If I read that statement alone it reads as "Birmingham is the first and probably only southeastern city to showcase this" when it seems like you are really saying "Birmingham is the only city, in what *I* consider to be the southeast, to showcase this". Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean and if that is the case then I apologize. Are you saying that Birmingham is the only city in the southeast that has this type of housing or are you saying that Birmingham is the only city in the southeast that has ALL of these types of housing in the southeast? I don't think either of those statements are completely true but one is more true than the other. I could show you southern cities in VA that have all of those types of housing in one city, but you would just tell me that VA isn't the southeast...

Does Savannah not count?

midrise/ tripple decker
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0725...2!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0634...2!8i6656?hl=en

highrise
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0680...2!8i6656?hl=en

dense single family
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0565...2!8i6656?hl=en

row house
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0709...2!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0732...2!8i6656?hl=en

Atlanta could also work as an example.
THANK YOU! Savannah does indeed have every variety of housing styles this Birmingham homer is trying to boast about exclusively -- and in pristine condition, within the largest urban historic district in the nation, which attracts millions of tourists annuallly. And Midtown Atlanta has every one of these housing styles too, in a much denser and urban environment than Birmingham could ever hope for. The only style really lacking in Atlanta is traditional brownstone-type rowhouses, but as you pointed out Birmingham doesn't really have those either; what he pictured are in fact TOWNHOUSES or single-family attached homes.

But now he'll come in here and redefine the terms and tell us Atlanta and Savannah aren't in his definition of the south ...
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:30 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,524,269 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpier015 View Post
The bold statement is the only statement that I have been replying to. I still feel as though you are using a personal, self defined, definition of southeastern. If I read that statement alone it reads as "Birmingham is the first and probably only southeastern city to showcase this" when it seems like you are really saying "Birmingham is the only city, in what *I* consider to be the southeast, to showcase this". Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean and if that is the case then I apologize. Are you saying that Birmingham is the only city in the southeast that has this type of housing or are you saying that Birmingham is the only city in the southeast that has ALL of these types of housing? I don't think either of those statements are completely true but one is more true than the other. I could show you southern cities in VA that have all of those types of housing in one city, but you would just tell me that VA isn't the southeast...

Does Savannah not count?

midrise/ tripple decker
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0725...2!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0634...2!8i6656?hl=en

highrise
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0680...2!8i6656?hl=en

dense single family
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0565...2!8i6656?hl=en

row house
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0709...2!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.0732...2!8i6656?hl=en

Atlanta could also work as an example.
I initially meant that Birmingham had the more diverse housing, due to the expansion of the housing market Pre-WWII and Post-WWII, from the 1890's to the 2010's. As it shares influences from the Midwest/Northeast and the Southeast. I didn't include VA cities because in one of my other posts, I clearly stated, "Now, when I said Atlanta was the typical city of the Southeast, I was mostly spearing towards the growth and future expectations of the typical Southeastern city, and combining that with physical characteristics such as the Weather, Sprawl, Flora/Fauna or Topography. Those like Charlotte, Raleigh, Greenville, Huntsville, Nashville, Greensboro, and etc. Which in this case, when I think of all these aspects, as an outsider, one has to believe that Atlanta would be the typical Southeastern city that developed the mold."

But see Richmond, Norfolk, and etc. didn't fit my description from the jump, so I never thought to even include those cities in the first place. If so, shouldn't you have pondered to why I didn't even bother to include Florida cities either? I mean, technically Tampa's in the Southeast, but there's literally posts a few pages back that's placing Tampa with other Gulf Coast cities such as Houston, Mobile, Pensacola, and New Orleans. If that wasn't clear for you, my bad, I don't know how else I could explain it. (And yes It's Townhouse instead of Rowhouse, thanks for clearing that up) Also, since I'm pretty much forced to include Savannah, then I give it it's props. Yet, I'd still like to see more examples of the Pre-WWII High/Mid Rises.

BUT, that was stemmed from my other post which stated that Birmingham was one of the first cities, if not the first, to have various Urban Cores and High-Rise/Mid-Rises outside of it's Downtown area within the Southeast. Which I showed examples of...

Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Birmingham had High-Rises/Mid-Rises that were already built outside of it's Downtown decades ago.
6 Miles West of Downtown
4 Miles East of Downtown
3 Miles North of Downtown
2 Miles South of Downtown
People have argued against this as well, but yet still haven't shown me examples.
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:54 PM
 
3,228 posts, read 1,560,833 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpier015 View Post
You don't sound quite as "traveled" as some of the posters here based on your replies. There are several cities in the south that have what you mention in surplus. Row homes...Richmond, VA, Alexandria, Va, Fredericksburg,VA, Charleston, SC, Savannah, GA, Duluth, GA. Triple Deckers: Norfolk is full of them. Memphis is as well. Mid/ Highrise apartments can be found in almost any large southern city from Nashville to Charlotte to Atlanta. Dense single family homes? The trolley car was invented in Richmond, VA. I also think that some of those Rowhome pictures of Birmingham that you posted would be considered Townhomes by most people...

Richmond Rowhomes
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5541...2!8i6656?hl=en

Norfolk Triple Deckers
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8669...2!8i6656?hl=en
These Norfolk multi-residential buildings you call Triple Decker's. Do NOT FIT as AUTHENTIC ONES CREATED IN BOSTON.

When I hear "Triple Decker"? I think of Boston. They are a style of 3-story, 3-flat or unit home. They were each story was a living unit. They were generally a owner live-in one and rent 2. This apartment building ... is not a Triple Decker in that sense.

Link giving features of a authentic Triple-Decker and picture.

Anatomy of a Three-Decker (or Triple-Decker, If You Prefer)

But this second ... street-view you call Triple-Decker ----> IS A CHICAGO style "Court-Yard" apartment building. I turned your street-view facing directly and changed to a summer street-view.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8668...2!8i6656?hl=en

A couple Chicago ones

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9454...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9455...7i13312!8i6656

Link with history the Chicago "Court-yard" apartment building developed with pictures at bottom of link.

Chicago Building Types: the Courtyard Apartment
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:06 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,524,269 times
Reputation: 1848
The links posted for Savannah weren't a decent example either.

As for that Chicago "Court-yard" apartment building development, It's very interesting. I'd see similar type of developments throughout of Birmingham, but never knew what to call them, or where exactly they were influenced from.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5086...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5037...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5029...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5016...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5053...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5089...7i13312!8i6656

Which further proves my point earlier with the Housing Diversity argument, and Birmingham taking in influences from cities within the Midwest/Northeast.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,300 posts, read 3,517,264 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Yes, but those Baltimore Rowhouses are a National Register Historical Market, Which signifies the uniqueness of that type of housing in relation to Atlanta, and I respect that, and to be quite honest, I also never said Atlanta didn't have those things as well. But when we think about the Southeast and it's housing market, the initial reaction is not to ponder about to idea of multiple housing options being the norm. (Charlotte, Raleigh, Greenville, Nashville, Huntsville, Greensboro, etc.)

What's typical for the Southeast, isn't exactly typical for Birmingham. I mean you have the...

Rowhouses:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5056...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4952...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4956...7i13312!8i6656

Triple Deckers:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4921...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5052...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5046...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4947...7i13312!8i6656

Apartment Midrises/Highrises:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5058...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4980...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5040...7i13312!8i6656

Late 20th Century Apartment Complexes:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5143...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5078...7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4949...7i13312!8i6656

SFH's and etc. etc. How exactly is this duplicated within the Southeast?
You stated this: "Not to mention the only city within the Southeast with Rowhouses, dense SFH's, Triple Deckers, and other representations of housing with diverse architecture. No other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta."

This is totally untrue, and you need to stop pretending that Birmingham was something it wasn't.

And OF COURSE The Baltimore Block is protected, it's from 1885! Are you suggesting it would not be protected in Birmingham if it had been large enough back then to have built something similar?

I think not.
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:06 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,524,269 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
You stated this: "Not to mention the only city within the Southeast with Rowhouses, dense SFH's, Triple Deckers, and other representations of housing with diverse architecture. No other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta."

This is totally untrue, and you need to stop pretending that Birmingham was something it wasn't.
No one else has refuted that statement with examples except for Savannah and Norfolk, even still, those examples weren't exactly decent examples of said housing developments. On the second statement, I said no other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta. That's FACT, if you think otherwise, please show me how Atlanta and etc. compares to Rust Belt cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, and etc?
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Old 06-16-2017, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,300 posts, read 3,517,264 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
No one else has refuted that statement with examples except for Savannah and Norfolk, even still, those examples weren't exactly decent examples of said housing developments. On the second statement, I said no other city within the Southeast fits Birmingham's mold, not even Atlanta. That's FACT, if you think otherwise, please show me how Atlanta and etc. compares to Rust Belt cities like Buffalo, Cleveland, and etc?
No, that's on you. You know for a fact dense rowhouses were built in Atlanta in 1885, when Birmingham was still a large village. You claim to know Atlanta very well, yet you continue to boost Birmingham to false and ridiculous levels that were hardly "unique to the entire South."

I have absolutely no appetite to get in a tit-for-tat picture and video comparison war with you. None of the pictures you posted were impressive or unique in any way as well. It is an accepted and historical fact that Birmingham has nothing on other Southern cities when it comes to housing in any way, shape or form.

Last edited by JMatl; 06-16-2017 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:00 PM
_OT
 
Location: Miami
2,144 posts, read 1,524,269 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
No, that's on you. You know for a fact dense rowhouses were built in Atlanta in 1885, when Birmingham was still a large village. You claim to know Atlanta very well, yet you continue to boost Birmingham to false and ridiculous levels that were hardly "unique to the entire South."

I have absolutely no appetite to get in a tit-for-tat picture and video comparison war with you. None of the pictures you posted were impressive or unique in any way as well. It is an accepted and historical fact that Birmingham has nothing on other Southern cities when it comes to housing in any way, shape or form.
The other poster corrected me a while ago that I was meant to say Townhouse, instead of Rowhouse, so I give Atlanta props in that regard. But still, I gave various examples of the housing diversity in Birmingham, to show how it compares to the rest of the Southeast; plus I also gave examples of Birmingham having multiple Pre-WWII Urban Cores and Mid/High-Rises outside of it's Downtown, as it relates to the rest of the Southeast. No one else has yet to give me any proper examples to refute my claims for Atlanta, or any other city within the Southeast. (Outside of Savannah, and Norfolk, even though they weren't decent examples)

Doesn't matter if you think they were impressive or not, that wasn't my intent when posting them. I posted those links to back up my claims, and give examples of how Birmingham separates itself from Atlanta, Charlotte and the rest of the Southeast in terms of it's physical traits, which is fact that Birmingham is more of a Rust Belt city, than it is a typical Southeast city.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,300 posts, read 3,517,264 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by _OT View Post
Which is fact that Birmingham is more of a Rust Belt city, than it is a typical Southeast city.
And here we have it. THIS is what you wish were true, but nothing could be farther from it.

For you to even suggest that Birmingham has 'superior' urban housing than anyplace else in the South is beyond laughable, and your links proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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