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Old 06-20-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I don't think skin color has anything to do with it, but poverty does. But it just so happens that most poor people in the country are black.

Blacks moved north during and after the Civil War and up until WWII. They moved to the larger industrial cities (mostly in the Midwest and North) for jobs. They didn't move west because the West didn't have jobs available. In fact, some Western states weren't even states until the early 1900s. Arizona didn't become a state until 1912.
It's not just about poverty. Obviously poor neighborhoods of any color tend to have higher crime rates - including murder rates - than wealthy ones. But even adjusting for income, black neighborhoods tend to have much higher murder rates than white, Hispanic, or Asian ones.

Cultural factors play a role here. Black culture within America was heavily influenced by southern white culture, which was historically very violent when it came to challenging slights to one's "honor" - it's where dueling was most common in colonial times, for example. Fundamentally a lot of black-on-black murder is not predatory crime, it's what one might call "rough justice" - the idea that a real man needs to take care of himself and respond to slights against him and his with potentially deadly force. Whereas white southern culture got less violent through the 20th century - as people began giving up the idea of blood vengeance and trusting the law to solve issues - black communities for very obvious reasons did not develop the same trust for the cops and courts.

Or hell, step back and think of this scenario. You're a 20 year old black man who has some priors. Someone jumps one of your best friends and shoots him dead. You believe you know who it is, but you have absolutely no faith that the cops will investigate the murder fully, or even that enough evidence exists to convict the perpetrator. Going to the police, you might even get arrested yourself. But you have a gun, and you can "take care" of the situation yourself.

To most of us, this is a completely alien way of thinking about things. But 300 years ago, all of our ancestors would do just the same thing that an inner-city young black man might do today.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
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The South has the highest per capita crime rates in the nation.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:34 PM
 
6,497 posts, read 4,076,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
I think it is stunning to compare Western areas to the Midwest and South.

Orange County, California in 2015 for instance had 57 homicides for the entire year with a population of 3.2 million people. Cities in the Midwest like Louisville, St. Louis and Detroit with far smaller populations have already far surpassed that this year and it is barely June.
Orange County (I live there) is unusual because while the population is huge, it isn't one big city, it's a conglomeration of many small cities, most neighborhoods are relatively new, and the cost of housing ensures that outside of a few pockets (Santa Ana...), most people are moderately to very affluent. Ghettos, gangs, high-rises, and urban grit are all few and far between. It's not a fair comparison between Orange County and an older Midwest city in the first place. And, for what it's worth, the population is less than 1% African-American.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Yakima WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibbidy View Post
While Western cities tend to be safer, the western states overall have more crime as in rural and small town crime. States like New Mexico, Arizona, Alaska and Nevada have some of the highest state crime rates along with the southern states like Tennessee and Louisiana, while the midwest states dont make the list.

And i wouldnt even include Des Moines into the convo just because they have 1 bad year.

Also the cities with the highest auto thefts rates are all western cities especially Albuquerque which leads the nation in auto thefts.

Auto theft is a big problem in the West because of the large Mexican-American population. I am not a racist. I have mostly Hispanic friends. It's just a statistical fact that the top per capita auto theft cities are heavily Mexican, including the town I live in. Many people avoid buying Honda's here simply because they are stolen so often.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,010 posts, read 23,908,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaiunmei View Post
Expanding on some of the points that have been made already, one of the reasons why the murder rates SEEM low in the west is due to (a) the geographic space between neighboring cities, and (b) the relatively close nature that lurks nearby.

What I mean to say is this: it is very easy to hide a body out in these parts and that body could remain not found for a long time. And because people "disappear" all of the time, those numbers may not appear in murder tallies but they are almost certainly murders in some situations.

Here is one sad example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disapp..._Sky_Metalwala

In the above instance, though it pains me to say it, this child is almost certainly deceased and there's a good chance he died in a city that has (a) low "stated" crime and (b) a median household income above $100k.
That could happen anywhere.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:47 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,740 posts, read 6,141,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Auto theft is a big problem in the West because of the large Mexican-American population. I am not a racist. I have mostly Hispanic friends. It's just a statistical fact that the top per capita auto theft cities are heavily Mexican, including the town I live in. Many people avoid buying Honda's here simply because they are stolen so often.
I always find it funny when people say that.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,010 posts, read 23,908,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
I don't think skin color has anything to do with it, but poverty does. But it just so happens that most poor people in the country are black.

Blacks moved north during and after the Civil War and up until WWII. They moved to the larger industrial cities (mostly in the Midwest and North) for jobs. They didn't move west because the West didn't have jobs available. In fact, some Western states weren't even states until the early 1900s. Arizona didn't become a state until 1912.
New Mexico, too.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Yakima WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I always find it funny when people say that.
I know it's such a cliche. But in my case it's true.
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Old 06-21-2017, 06:58 AM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,885,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
I know it's such a cliche. But in my case it's true.
I believe that you believe it is true (and it may be) however, having friends of different races in no ways means that you are not racist. There are black people, who are racist toward black people. I have a nephew who never even considers dating black girls or women since he was a teen. I know black people who all the time are talking down about black people....while being black themselves. The reason is simple. Some people can and do exempt present company, whether it be themselves or their friends, while continuing to hold negative views against the collective. It is called the fallacy of composition when one argues that what is true of a part is thus true for the whole. Ergo, it is a logical fallacy to suggest that having friends of a different race means you have nothing negative against the race they belong to, although it may be true that you don't. In other words, you might not be a racist, but the fact that you have friends of a different race does not in anyway prove that. Dylan Roof had a black friend.
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Old 06-22-2017, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
4,403 posts, read 4,607,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I believe that you believe it is true (and it may be) however, having friends of different races in no ways means that you are not racist. There are black people, who are racist toward black people. I have a nephew who never even considers dating black girls or women since he was a teen. I know black people who all the time are talking down about black people....while being black themselves. The reason is simple. Some people can and do exempt present company, whether it be themselves or their friends, while continuing to hold negative views against the collective. It is called the fallacy of composition when one argues that what is true of a part is thus true for the whole. Ergo, it is a logical fallacy to suggest that having friends of a different race means you have nothing negative against the race they belong to, although it may be true that you don't. In other words, you might not be a racist, but the fact that you have friends of a different race does not in anyway prove that. Dylan Roof had a black friend.
I know myself very well and say with 100% certainty I am not a racist. Knowing race/ethnicity statistical facts for crime does not make one a racist.

While I am not a racist I do admit to extreme prejudice towards the criminal element, violent criminals in particular....regardless of race.

Last edited by Jay F; 06-22-2017 at 03:10 AM..
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