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Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,550,614 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I know you're not necessarily making the argument that these states and DC definitively comprise the mid-Atlantic, but to me it seems weird to include the states in both the historic mid-Atlantic (NJ, PA, NY) and the contemporary mid-Atlantic (DE, MD, DC, VA, WV). But that's just me.
I don't think people accept change well.
The term mid-Atlantic only in my 30 plus lifetime has grown more and more synonymous with the states you described. I really in my eyes see MD and DE or the DelMarVa as the epicenter, but I am not the only one. This perception has changed over the last 30 years.
Outside of this website when I even hear anyone referring to the mid-Atlantic or "traits" that make it unique like this thread asks. Literally 9 out of 10 times people refer to something in either DC, MD, VA, DE, or the Eastern panhandle of WV.
News coverage in this region and nationally specifically refer to the Chesapeake Bay watershed region as the Mid-Atlantic, and when they want to lump in Philly, NJ and NY they specify the "Northeast". With that said I'll accept to some extent those areas being included (although I have qualms about NYC being included).
Baltimore is the urban embodiment of MD culture. Old Bay is Baltimore thing, Rowhouses are a Baltimore thing, Being quirky is a Baltimore thing, One of the greatest waterfronts on the planet is a Baltimore thing, The Star Spangled Banner is a Baltimore thing. You want all that to move to another state?
Agreed. I spent a month in Baltimore last year for work and thoroughly enjoyed the city. Fell's Point, Inner Harbor, Mt. Vernon, Hampden... all very awesome neighborhoods. Distinctly Mid-Atlantic to me with the architecture, dining, streetscapes, culture, etc. I really enjoyed visiting Annapolis too. Maryland is a great state and though Baltimore has its issues, it's a net positive for Maryland IMO.
- row-home regional capital with old-stock big to small cities having a largest % as rows-housing or duplex-double attached homes (called half-doubles in some regions).
- the row-home capital major city Philadelphia.... of the US with Baltimore second.
- attached housing capitol being also the tenements of NYC too.
- I'd place PA as the state capital of row and attached housing with mid-sized cities like Reading/Allentown, Lancaster/Lebanon and Scranton/Wilkes-barre.
But I note this is by far older pre WW2 housing in these cities. Some it amounts to virtually all till the townships or burbs....
How can you post about Mid Atlantic and not include Baltimore? I love Baltimore Johns Hopkins Hospital, Home of The American National Anthem was written in Baltimore @ Fort McHenry. Baltimore Ravens(Baltimore Colts), Baltimore Orioles, Crabs, Old Bay Seasoning, Baltimore Inner Harbor, Row Homes,...Not enough space to continue.
Its great that some people enjoy Baltimore. I am not one of them. I have spent more time there than I care to and am always struck by the blight and visible drug use/poverty. Again, if anyone wants to debate the merits of Baltimore, I think starting a thread in the MD forum would be the place for that.
Chickens, chickens, and more chickens. Chicken farms, chicken feed (corn), Chicken processing plants. Tyson, Perdue, Mountaire, you name it, if the company does chickens, it is here. Welcome to Delmarva!
I'm aware of Delaware's location relative to MD's. Most of the state's population associates itself with the Philly area, so I just include DE with Philly and points north.
Its great that some people enjoy Baltimore. I am not one of them. I have spent more time there than I care to and am always struck by the blight and visible drug use/poverty. Again, if anyone wants to debate the merits of Baltimore, I think starting a thread in the MD forum would be the place for that.
Nope not interested in starting a debate, I was only replying to your post RE: Mid Atlantic Several people had mention Baltimore I gave my opinion about BALTIMORE. I do not live there anymore. BTW--maybe you were in the wrong neighborhoods not all of Baltimore is blight, drugs. Most big and small cities have blight, drugs(small cities). I wish, I were in Baltimore this weekend for those Baltimore Crabcakes.
I hope you are happy where you are now! Please enjoy your weekend and 4th of July Holiday!
I don't think that you can just cut nova out of Virginia. People *on here* have a tendency to do that. If NOVA is part of the mid-Atlantic then Virginia is mid-Atlantic. I don't agree with North Carolina being included but even professionally, in my experience, Virginia has always been apart of our mid-Atlantic branches. It's like saying Philadelphia is the mid-Atlantic(or Northeastern) but the entire rest of PA is not. Mid-Atlantic has never been a strictly defined region. If we are going by census then neither Maryland nor Delaware would be included. Other sources say that Delaware, Maryland and Virginia make up the main part of the region. Wikipedia has it going from New York to Virginia. I think it's kind of weird to act as though there is some universal, strict definition of the mid-Atlantic. Its impossible to accept Maryland then in the same breath ignore its past connection with Tidewater Virginia. The Chesapeake bay breathes life into Virginia just as it does Maryland. There's a reason that Delmarva is a thing. If residents of the state identify the state as mid-Atlantic then that is good enough for me.
This thing won't let me rep you anymore!
The people who separate Northern Virginia from the rest of Virginia have no clue the depth of interconnectivity between it and particularly Richmond, but also Hampton Roads. That has to be it, because nobody from around here separates NoVa to nearly the effort people online attempt it. In the past, I've even gone to length to describe the connectivity between Northern Virginia and Central Virginia. I guess people not from around here and those who have never lived here know more than me lol...
Northern Virginia is NOT some other country. I grew up there, and I'm in it all the time for one reason or another. It's unique to the rest of Virginia, but the contrasts between it and RVA/HRVA are less than the contrasts between The Big 3 and the other 30%...
Another thing I've commented on to great lengths in the past is how so many people choose to gloss over or outright ignore Virginia's ties and similarities to Maryland...
Lastly, of course you're right, there are numerous professional organizations of all stripes that consider Virginia Mid-Atlantic, either in whole or in part. People on here really act as if Virginia or Virginians made the decision to be included within the subregion for themselves yesterday...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
The evolution of regional designations is fascinating to say the least.
Most definitely this!
..........
I also want to add one more point. I was educated by public schools in Virginia and God is my witness, I do not recall ever hearing anything about Mid-Atlantic. Not once. Maybe my memory is just awful but I just turned 28, I'm not that far removed from school...
I'm not even sure when I first started hearing the term, I'll say around late-00s around 18-19, it was definitely after I left high school. I'll reiterate what I've said before, that growing up in my era (the 2000s) where I grew up, nobody considered themselves "Northerners" but very, very few people I met openly identified as Southerners, or related to cities and states that are commonly considered the South. This same dynamic still exists today. Not that being of the South is shameful, but I'm illustrating that this was not something that people readily identified with, being Southerners, even if we are. It just didn't come up. When we spoke about the South we were talking about areas south of VA and called it "down south". I've mentioned this before so I'll spare the extra details...
As it relates to a comment by eschaton, I had no idea NY/NJ/PA was considered historically Mid-Atlantic until my early adulthood. So when people talk about what is or isn't Mid-Atlantic, let's keep in mind that not everybody has the same definition or even knows of alternate definitions because as was mentioned, there has never been a consensus to state what is or isn't Mid-Atlantic....
The major cities in Virginia have ALWAYS, and I do mean always, had more connectivity with the northern neighbors than its southern ones. People want to cherry pick a small period of time that the state was associated all things Southern, and yet before, during, and after that time period, the ties to points north (DC and Maryland especially bit also Philly, NY, and Boston to lesser degrees), in Virginia's major cities, have always been much, much greater than to anywhere in the South--and that includes our friendly neighbor North Carolina...
I consider the three urban centers of Virginia, and Charlottesville, as Mid-Atlantic today, but Mid-Atlantic South. I don't give a damn what the historical definition was when there were fewer than a couple million people in this country and this nation was only a few states big. I have a good idea of what it means today...
Right. I have no issue with DE, MD, DC, and even increasingly NOVA being included in the mid-Atlantic. But the expansion of the term to include all of Virginia and sometimes even North Carolina, along with cutting out NY/NJ/PA, just seems weird to me.
There is an entire side of Pennsylvania, including that major city you're from, that embodies other subregional designations much greater than they embody the Mid-Atlantic....
There is an entire state, New York, that embodies moreso other subregional characteristics than it does Mid-Atlantic...
Northern New Jersey is not Mid-Atlantic in my opinion because I don't consider The City Mid-Atlantic, but hey, for those who do consider NY that I guess it follows that they'd feel NNJ is as well...
All of Virginia is not Mid-Atlantic. Literally the only place that might be considered Mid-Atlantic in NC is the Outer Banks/far northeast NC, but that would even be stretching it because while that area is connected somewhat to HRVA, it isn't connected to anywhere else in the Mid-Atlantic in any way...
My point is, I don't have a problem "cutting off" parts of certain states. Things change. It's not 1842 anymore. It's not 1970 anymore. The historical definition of Mid-Atlantic was defined as such in time periods this country was so dramatically different that I can't dutifully express. The historical definition is not applicable to today....things change!
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