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Old 07-04-2017, 10:56 PM
 
1,829 posts, read 1,251,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
It is not hard to imagine that the large swaths of Phoenix housing that look like this will soon start to look like this
That would be an improvement. Run down or not, the houses in the second link look more appealing than those in the first link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
There, I fixed it for you.
Its been growing like crazy despite that, so seems people still want to move to Houston despite economic issues.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
3,296 posts, read 1,651,567 times
Reputation: 3553
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Chicagoan throwing in my 2 cents worth here:

Chicago's future? Richer, more gentrified, whiter, typical "successful" US city that squeezes out the poor and minorities. Chicago is bleeding black population. White, hispanic and Asian populations have not declined. How should we feel about that: being the center for the rich, being so gentrified, squeezing out the poor and minorities: lousy. but welcome to modern America.

Highest murder rate in the US? Not even close. We have the highest # of murders in the US because the city is such a large one and frankly our murder rate and numbers is higher than NYC or LA.

But the safety issue is mainly in a few high crime neighborhoods on the South and West sides.

In the core of the city, downtown an adjacent areas, the city is a boom town. No city is has more downtown residential construction than Chicago. Cranes in the air everywhere. Huge major projects being worked. Wanda Vista, an 1000+ ft., 95 story condo/hotel tower rises along the Chicago River....the smallest and cheapest condo in the building on the lowest floors will set you back a $1,000,000. Other such residential towers are rising in the city's core. Does any seriously f'ing think that sounds like a city in decline.

Maybe I am getting a little defensive here, but mostly I am laughing my head off at the mind boggling, off the wall, bat s**t crazy ignorance so many people have about Chicago. Ours is one of the most desirable cities in the US. By far. We are a magnet for the best of entertainment, dining, culture, an utter gem of a city.

Am I worried about Chicago's future? Hell no! We are incredibly great today, and we will be greater tomorrow.

I haven't put down any city here....all I've done is note how much garbage has been given my some folks here about Chicago. I'm hardly going to put down great American cities like Boston, New York, Washington, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Chicago is peer to them all, one of America's elite.

And I am damned proud and damned lucky to call this incredible city my home.
Every one of these posters KNOWS that Chicago is a WORLD CLASS city, 3rd largest city in the US. They also know that the whole crime issue is in a few bad neighborhoods that are nowhere near the core of the city. It's grasping for straws and wishful thinking because they realize that's about the only negative they can come up with, and they try to convince themselves that it's a reality. In the back of their minds they know Chicago is nowhere near a Detroit situation, and that most of the city's problems affect those few bad pockets and not the city as a whole. They all know this, but are trying to convince themselves otherwise.

The one big negative that does get bad press that could be problematic is the financial problems of the city/state. Since a lot of Chicago's working-class are tied to public sector jobs, if the financial problems continue it could have negative repercussions for the city. Having a strong, working-class population in addition to a strong white collar population is important for a thriving city.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,855 posts, read 6,528,109 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone View Post
Every one of these posters KNOWS that Chicago is a WORLD CLASS city, 3rd largest city in the US. They also know that the whole crime issue is in a few bad neighborhoods that are nowhere near the core of the city. It's grasping for straws and wishful thinking because they realize that's about the only negative they can come up with, and they try to convince themselves that it's a reality. In the back of their minds they know Chicago is nowhere near a Detroit situation, and that most of the city's problems affect those few bad pockets and not the city as a whole. They all know this, but are trying to convince themselves otherwise.

The one big negative that does get bad press that could be problematic is the financial problems of the city/state. Since a lot of Chicago's working-class are tied to public sector jobs, if the financial problems continue it could have negative repercussions for the city. Having a strong, working-class population in addition to a strong white collar population is important for a thriving city.
excellent assessment, persosone. But please, if you can, explain to me this: when you speak of the financial problems of our city and state, which, of course, are real, why don't we focus on the fact that the financial problems of our nation (and how they affect a strong, working-class population, is even a bigger issue than what the city and state are doing. And, while we're at it: are we really that different from other states....aren't they experiencing many of the same things we are? Aren't they, too, affected by the shortage of money than comes to them from DC? While IL tries to settle its budget crisis, NJ lives through the shut down of its beaches to all but the Christie family.

The ills described on Chicago are, in fact, the ills that are happening to America. We are in decay. We talk on CD about the relative positioning of this city vis-a-vis another, whose stock is going up, whose is going down, but we do so a small (well, not so small) pond that is the United States. But from what I can see, that same small pond is sinking and bringing us all down.

Which city is not in decline on some level...NYC, for all its glory, has a crumbling infastructure and malignant income inequality. Its very centrality as the greatest city on the planet (if you believe the hype) is very much threatened by the declining role of the US on the global scene. NYC will suffer, like all of us will, in the US of new realities. And frankly I believe that climate change issues that one nation, the US, more than any other, is responsible for is giving a bone-chilling rise in sea level and that very NYC will be greatly affected by it. Hell, I have every reason to believe there won't be a Miami in a hundred years. I think there is damned good chance that that city will be under the sea by 2117.

As for those who speak of violence and murder rate in Chicago: SHUT-THE-F-UP. Wake up, folks, you live in America and it is a violent place where guns are readily available (like look at Chicago's: most of those guns come from out of stare, Indiana in particular, than they do from Illinois or Chicago where gun restriction is much stronger). If you are worried about violence and guns in Chicago then just realize that you are in the US and you are subject to gun violence everywhere. No place is safe. What a complete and other joke for an American to gripe about guns and violence in Chicago when they live in the Guns & Violence capital of the world. Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver can took at Chicago's gun violence and go tsk, tsk. New York, Los Angeles, and Washington can't' they don't have the right.

Last edited by edsg25; 07-05-2017 at 05:58 AM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,052,687 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
I'll throw in a wild card - Houston.

It has experienced significant growth primarily thru the dominant oil/gas/refining business, and any decrease in North American production (much of which is designed to funnel thru Houston) will have an effect not unlike Detroit's growth and decline along with the auto industry. Houston has poor infrastructure, a significant entrenched poverty (along with high rich/poor divide), and is regularly subject to multi-billion dollar weather disasters that, aside from the oil-gas connections, may make it undesirable for other businesses. It's wealthy section is primarily limited to areas west and southwest of downtown, and far flung suburbs and exurbs (Exxon moved it's campus recently to the Woodlands, and an "Energy Corridor" has now developed beyond the outer loop). City services are minor compared to other large cities, and state support of cities ranges from poor to antagonistic. Houston is primarily perceived as a "place to work" and has much less desirability as a place to live than cities with better geography, city services, or climate.

It is going thru a growth spurt now, but any long-term diminishment of oil/gas industry, coupled with weather/climate disasters, remove much of the reason for Houston's being. The legacy of poor infrastructure, poorly built housing, hot/humid climate, and industrial waste make Houston a candidate as a future new rust belt city (along with much of the Gulf Coast).
This is only true if Houston dominance continues to come from the oil/gas/refining business. What we have seen lately, even compared to the last 25 between years between the two oil busts, is a major emphasis on diversifying it's economy. Houston has a growing and thriving medical center, a growing technology base, and a very important port system. It's location is actually tailor made for a major city build there.

I would say a big part of what hurt Detroit was the suburbanization of the city along with it's economy. It met the perfect storm that it is in today. If the market continues to show that city living is back on the rise, I wouldn't be surprised if Detroit makes a comeback and the city of Houston, as it continues to diversify it's economy and works on its city services, continues to get better as well. You are right that the infrastructure of that city must improve. The climate thing isn't a big deal IMO.

Last edited by Spade; 07-05-2017 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,515 posts, read 7,459,650 times
Reputation: 10918
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
It has nothing to do with water.

One reason is, once all those baby boomers start to die off in greater numbers, all those retirement villages are going to start emptying out and many of them will start to look like retirement Detroits.

But the main reason is, large quantities of cheap housing - which are found in abundance in places like Phoenix - tend to go downhill quickly. It is not hard to imagine that the large swaths of Phoenix housing that look like this will soon start to look like this, especially as Latin American immigration starts to dry up (which is already starting to happen).

But as I said, I'm not expecting it to happen for, like, another 30 years.
Only the older ones will, many of the nice retirement developments will continue as generation x retires and fills them in. Yes gen x is smaller but not so small that it will noticeably empty the retirement communities when boomers die.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
13,403 posts, read 21,192,209 times
Reputation: 10280
I dont understand why people throw Detroit under the bus. I find it one of the most underrated cities in the country. Its going through an awesome revitalization right now. Its got so much history in music of all kinds, its got a blossoming culinary scene, its the largest Arab community outside the Middle East, its got so much history and architecture, etc.

A great city. If it wasnt cold, Id absolutely live there.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,855 posts, read 6,528,109 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys fan in Houston View Post
I dont understand why people throw Detroit under the bus. I find it one of the most underrated cities in the country. Its going through an awesome revitalization right now. Its got so much history in music of all kinds, its got a blossoming culinary scene, its the largest Arab community outside the Middle East, its got so much history and architecture, etc.

A great city. If it wasnt cold, Id absolutely live there.
Hear!Hear!
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 5,203,598 times
Reputation: 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
If you think building some stadiums and developing a small area in the downtown is a renaissance you may be a bit naive. I have not seen the place in over 10 years admittedly but the level of decay I saw there can never be undone. Much of it is abandoned, much of it looks to not even be in the first world. Unless the population has been replaced, broken infrastructure replaced, corruption cleaned up and the falling down buildings cleared it can not really be that different than it was then. It is by far the worst city in the USA, one of the worst in all of North America (yes that means I am comparing it to Mexico) We Americans should work to avoid seeing any other US city meet Detroits fate. Detroit is like a ship broken on the rocks, it stands as a warning to all, Do not go this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
No he is not, I could care less about the local politics there. I know who he is from when I lived in Michigan but I always distanced myself from Detroit, even it's suburbs and all the trouble around that area. I lived in areas of Michigan far from all that anyway. Many people in Michigan distance themselves from Detroit proper, many never go there because of the way it is. No one there is happy with its condition or what that area did to Michigans reputation. If anything Michigan people living outside of southeast Michigan are ashamed of Detroit and its little brother Flint Michigan. Most of them wish people knew that the rest of Michigan is nothing like those places. I visited Michigan earlier this year and found the same attitudes still intact so the place cannot be some rennesance city as has been suggested.

I knew I would take heat for this post, and no I am not trolling Detroit homers. However there is NO WAY that Detroit is cleaned up and safe other than a small area downtown. The neighborhoods obviously are still terrible and dangerous and that means the city is still essentially the same. They basically cleaned up a small area in downtown for rich suburban people to come play, then they go home and pretend they live in a normal area without mass blight between them and thier downtown. I wonder how many true Detroit residents wander around downtown like they can in the neighborhood? I think we all know the answer to that question, and we all know what would happen to the crime rate downtown if they were allowed to hang out there. I know the last time I was actually there was when they built the new baseball stadium and I walked through the wrong place and a guy tried to rob us. An off duty officer was nearby and thankfully he was able to deter them and they ran. He told me I had wandered into a dangerous area. I was trying to get to the train they called a people mover and did not know where I was. I was not that far from the ballpark either..... someone going to say that is normal in a nice city? This was maybe 15 years ago, not 1983. Detroit cannot be fixed until its mass criminal elements are removed. That means making all those people living in the neighborhoods go somewhere else. We all know you can't make them move, and there are not enough prisons to lock up all the thieves, drug dealers etc who call that city home. Crime and thug life have become part of the culture there. Building a nice enclave downtown does not make that glaring problem go away.
You admittedly have not been to Detroit in over a decade (if it has been since Comerica opened, it has actually been closer to 20 years- it opened in 2000), so please stop pretending to know what is happening.

I work in a skyscraper on Woodward. I am there every day. Detroit now isn't what it was even 5 years ago. You would be shocked if you bothered to visit. Especially this time of year- there are people all over the downtown area all day/evening long. When the weather is nice, the crowds are dense enough to rival Chicago. Admittedly, the area with the dense crowds would be lower, but there are people there. Downtown and Midtown have waiting lists for both residential and commercial properties. Dan Gilbert's Quicken employees have to park 3-5 miles away and get shuttled in because there are so many people downtown. There aren't anymore vacant skyscrapers downtown. The ones that are empty are undergoing rehabs right now. I know Quicken is out of office space and people are working from home, so the buildings will not be vacant once completed.
Downtown has very little crime. There is a large police presence. (The mounted officers were stationed at lunch time today- as they are several days per week.) Dan Gilbert also has private security all over as well as monitored cameras that catch nearly every corner of downtown. The recent downtown crimes have all been personal, and people were arrested for all of them. Random crime is rare.

Neighborhoods? They are working on those, too. Brush Park has come a long way and they are working on developing it further. There are several new housing projects along the river front. Home Depot and Quicken have teamed up to rehab homes in neighborhoods and the project has been very successful. Values in Boston-Edison have rebounded quite well over the last few years. Indian Village has continued to climb. Lafayette Park, once pretty affordable, has gotten quite expensive. Are there neighborhoods in bad shape? Yes. There is pretty much no hope for Delray. But most of the neighborhoods are doing much better, and they continue to improve constantly.

Suburbs? Especially inner ring? Most are thriving. People have been priced out of them, so they keep going to the next one. Right now, houses in Hazel Park are selling for $20-30K over the appraised value and they are under contract in under 24 hours. If you don't have significant cash, you are not going to buy right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadofknowledge View Post
Chicago, Buffalo NY, & Toledo OH...

And ppl taking about Detroit revitalization. But Detroit seems to be continuing on its ghost town path, i see no change from Detroit in the 1980s n 90s to Detroit now, no change at all.
Have you been? Please visit and then let me know what you think.
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Old 07-06-2017, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,855 posts, read 6,528,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
Y


Have you been? Please visit and then let me know what you think.
\\

I'm not sure Spreadofknowledge has any real knowledge to spread. I'm sure he's never been to Detroit. I doubt that he has ever been to Chicago. His observational on Chicago is laughable.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:11 AM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,369,908 times
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People are mentioning Chicago, and I would actually agree that sections of the west and south sides are on their way to becoming the next Detroit, although certainly not the city as a whole, it's not even in the same ballpark. My husband is from Detroit and I'm there a lot, the situations on the ground are much different.

1/3 of Chicago is definitely failing really hard, those areas on the west and south side that are ground zero for all the population loss.

The difference between Chicago and Detroit though is that there's the 1/3 of Chicago that's stable and not doing much of anything, although not declining, just carrying on as normal, and then there's the 1/3 or so that's between either outright booming like crazy and just slowly growing and improving. Those 2/3 of Chicago would need to have serious issues to push the entire city to a breaking point.

I'm talking about the areas where people live and the neighborhoods, not just square mileage.

The bad parts of the city take up a lot of area, but are also some of the very lowest populated areas as everyone has left. The greater downtown and the north lakefront and areas to the west are around 1/3 of the population, almost all of the business tax base and the huge majority of jobs, but they aren't the biggest land area of the city. That area still pours tens of billions of GDP and lots of $$ into the economy. That's something the city of Detroit just doesn't have.
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