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Old 07-10-2017, 04:06 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,127 posts, read 35,114,563 times
Reputation: 15348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
People outside of Michigan view cannot differentiate between Michigan and Detroit. Detroit IS Michigan in their eyes. Many people have no idea that Metro Detroit has always been healthy, nor do they realize that it includes some of the wealthiest suburbs in the country.
About time someone made this distinction.
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:48 PM
 
2,025 posts, read 2,359,435 times
Reputation: 1961
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
I've got news for you! The U.S. is (too) splintered too. Now that there is a white Republican back in the Oval Office, the Red Southern states are not howling for secession like they were 5 years ago. But now there is backlash against removing the Confederate legacy post-Roof. There might be a coup within the GOP soon for a separate Southern state. Texas may secede back to the Republic.

The North and West don't like a Southern-based GOP pushing Southern values on them. The West sees Washington as a far-away East-coast/Eastern U.S.-centric government. There might emerge a Donald Trump-figure that belittles the burdensome Federal Government (a.k.a. the Fedocracy) like Donald's anti-EU rants in the U.K.

The North doesn't like the growing domination of the South due to House seats shifting with the Sunbelt migration trend. I could see the Union (the Northeastern and Great Lakes) states joining Canada due to similar values, lifestyles, and geographical proximity.

The federal government will evacuate to the states that are left in the Intermountain West and Great Plains and locate in a suitable inland city for the new capital. But that territory will be so weak that it's up for grabs. Canada, the new Western state, the Confederacy, Texas, and perhaps Mexico will try to grab as much proximate territory from the weakened United States as possible.
Put the bong down dude.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,852 posts, read 9,006,601 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwest1 View Post
Put the bong down dude.
Sorry man, it's true. This country is (or more) divided as it was during the American Revolution. There are still lingering racial tensions that were thought to be buried at the turn of the century, a bad economy for Main Street and a boom on Wall Street, Constitutional crisis, etc. Looks like the American Revolution was a mistake!
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:49 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,261,820 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
She had a bad source, which I will admit. It gave CSA numbers, not MSA numbers and the estimate was off. I went straight to the source this time (US Census), which is attached below. It is holding steady, no gains, no losses.



People outside of Michigan view cannot differentiate between Michigan and Detroit. Detroit IS Michigan in their eyes. Many people have no idea that Metro Detroit has always been healthy, nor do they realize that it includes some of the wealthiest suburbs in the country.
Metro Detroit has been estimated to grow .03% in six years since 2010. That isn't healthy for a major city in a nation which has grown 5% in the same period, and that is a figure including rural areas, which are doing much worse than urban areas, as a whole.

About your previous figures, I would like to see the bad source you are referencing. Didn't it seem odd to you that Detroit was, supposedly, growing at a faster rate than Houston or DFW? According to Fact Finder, Detroit's CSA is, like Detroit's MSA, estimated to have stagnated and was lower, measuring population, in 2016 than in 2010, so it hardly has "never lost population." According to Wikipedia (I know, 'great' source), Detroit's metro area decreased in population from 1970 to 1990, and took into the 2000's to get past the previous peak, though I can't find a source for pre-2000 population estimates.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:46 PM
 
17 posts, read 8,798 times
Reputation: 56
When predicting the "next Detroit", keep in mind the one key issue that amazingly gets overlooked by most planners and urban historians: cheaply built housing.

Think about this for a moment... as Detroit rapidly grew during the 40s and 50s, the rapid growth was fueled by industrial jobs that paid a wage decent enough that you could build your own new home... and all these new homes were needed to house the rapidly growing population. In Detroit, this was also aided by the fact that 1) Midwestern land is plentiful with few geographic barriers to contain the sprawl, and 2) in Michigan water is cheap and plentiful which means you can build your house wherever you can get land, and are not reliant on city infrastructure to bring you water. 1) and 2) basically allowed urban sprawl to spread without boundaries. However, Detroit sprawl was not just any sprawl, but it was the sprawl of cheaply built homes.

Essentially, there was no limit on supply. In many other urban areas, supply was constrained by geography, which caused housing costs to rise, which meant that only those who could afford to build nicer homes could build new. In Detroit, anybody could build new. Further, in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, why would a (metro) Detroiter want to to move into a old cheap house when they could easily and cheaply build a new house. Thus the housing supply became too large, and lower income folks who could not afford to maintain a house moved into the cheap houses left over from the 40s and 50s.

And of course with Detroit being in the north where weather is not kind, the houses deteriorated without proper maintenance. This made the neighborhoods even less desirable, and eventually the poor people moved into newer houses left behind by the middle class moving into more cheaply built new houses. Long story short, Detroit has an over supply of cheaply built homes that fall apart quickly.

Thus, in picking your "new Detroit", pick a metro that has a ton of cheaply built homes. It should also be geographically unconstrained, and in a place that the weather takes a toll on the cheaply built structures. Find that metro, and you will find your new Detroit.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:38 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 6,124,596 times
Reputation: 5840
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonimuso View Post
I think Chicago is going to be the next Detroit. I know people are very defensive about it, but when you have people fleeing a major city like that...

Whats worse, being defensive or being dramatic?

"People fleeing" last year made up just 1/3 of 1% of Chicago's population.

The sky is not falling in Chicago.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:08 AM
 
178 posts, read 84,901 times
Reputation: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spreadofknowledge View Post
Chicago, Buffalo NY, & Toledo OH...

And ppl taking about Detroit revitalization. But Detroit seems to be continuing on its ghost town path, i see no change from Detroit in the 1980s n 90s to Detroit now, no change at all.
??? You really dont know what you are talking about. Im not even from Detroit and I can tell you its coming a long way
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,348 posts, read 7,440,274 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Suburban Detroit is not Detroit. You are right, the northern and western suburbs of Detroit are very nice and they stand in stark contrast to thier urban neighbors. In fact there is a great deal of animosity between Detroit proper and its suburbs, the most dysfunctional metro in the USA.
Very untrue and posted by someone who doesn't live in or know the area. Read at your own risk.

I actually DO live in SE Michigan and have family in a lovely Oakland County suburb so here is the truth: the suburbs are extremely proud of the progress that is being made in Detroit and are savvy enough to know that they are indissolubly linked to Detroit and that it behooves them to support their core city. People from the suburbs go to Detroit often to work and to play and support the city with their time and money. They are proud, yes proud, of the Motor City. That "Hatfields and McCoys" stuff may be prevalent where he moved, but we just don't have time for it up here.

Detroit is improving in leaps and bounds and people are on waiting lists to live in the downtown and Midtown neighborhoods. There is a vibrancy that hasn't been seen in years and it is truly a renaissance city. Rome wasn't built in a day and Detroit will not come back in a day, but it is far from the hopeless situation that this poster inaccurately portrays.

I know that he used to live in Michigan and was quite a cheerleader for our beautiful state then, but now he just comes across as bitter. I hope all is well.

Last edited by canudigit; 07-11-2017 at 06:35 AM..
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 5,219,151 times
Reputation: 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parhe View Post
Metro Detroit has been estimated to grow .03% in six years since 2010. That isn't healthy for a major city in a nation which has grown 5% in the same period, and that is a figure including rural areas, which are doing much worse than urban areas, as a whole.

About your previous figures, I would like to see the bad source you are referencing. Didn't it seem odd to you that Detroit was, supposedly, growing at a faster rate than Houston or DFW? According to Fact Finder, Detroit's CSA is, like Detroit's MSA, estimated to have stagnated and was lower, measuring population, in 2016 than in 2010, so it hardly has "never lost population." According to Wikipedia (I know, 'great' source), Detroit's metro area decreased in population from 1970 to 1990, and took into the 2000's to get past the previous peak, though I can't find a source for pre-2000 population estimates.
Wikipedia was the source. I didn't look to see if it was supported by a link. And I know better...

Honestly, I didn't sit and analyze the numbers. Nor do I have any idea how rapidly cities in Texas are growing. I know they are, but I wouldn't even be able to guess the rate.

Growth, to me, made sense, which is why I didn't even think about the source's accuracy. Most of my high school classmates moved out of state and have come back now. I have a degree in elementary education and I know of only one person I graduated with who got a job in Michigan without teaching out of state for a few years. And almost all of them have come back. Out of people I talk to on a fairly regular basis, I could rattle off at least 20 people who left and came back. Adding in classmates I am no longer in contact with, I'm sure the number is over 100. So, since it made sense and I didn't question it.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,527 posts, read 7,483,594 times
Reputation: 10934
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
Very untrue and posted by someone who doesn't live in or know the area. Read at your own risk.

I actually DO live in SE Michigan and have family in a lovely Oakland County suburb so here is the truth: the suburbs are extremely proud of the progress that is being made in Detroit and are savvy enough to know that they are indissolubly linked to Detroit and that it behooves them to support their core city. People from the suburbs go to Detroit often to work and to play and support the city with their time and money. They are proud, yes proud, of the Motor City. That "Hatfields and McCoys" stuff may be prevalent where he moved, but we just don't have time for it up here.

Detroit is improving in leaps and bounds and people are on waiting lists to live in the downtown and Midtown neighborhoods. There is a vibrancy that hasn't been seen in years and it is truly a renaissance city. Rome wasn't built in a day and Detroit will not come back in a day, but it is far from the hopeless situation that this poster inaccurately portrays.

I know that he used to live in Michigan and was quite a cheerleader for our beautiful state then, but now he just comes across as bitter. I hope all is well.

Actually I still stick up for Michigan where the facts allow me to. Yes I chose to leave, but I still know the area. In fact I also have a family member in Oakland county whom I just visited on my trip to Michigan earlier in the spring. His area is very nice, lakes everywhere, and of course it is clean. I had a good visit until I got lost on his roads lol. I did not see Detroit however, really I had no reason too and my time up there is precious so I moved on to my other destinations. I was all over Michigan, my only beef was with the misery of Michigans road construction. I spent some time at tawas point, that was a beautiful place. All that being said I think you misunderstand my post if you thought I was bashing the state I grew up in. I have always been critical of the problems in a few SE Michigan cities that have hurt Michigan as a whole, and yes I'll admit the conditions and consequences of those conditions for Michigan do make me angry. Actually Detroits little brother flint has done more to embarrass Michigan lately with its water debacle. I do hope all these Detroit boosters are correct that some of that mess is being fixed, however there is decades of bad history to give me a lot of doubt. My family once lived in Detroit and I lived there as a baby. My family left decades ago as the place fell apart. My grandparents stuck it out there and thier neighborhood literally became a war zone by the late 80s. In fact I had my life threatened by a carload of locals when I drove there to visit my grandparents. I bet it's a total ruin today just like my great grandmothers neighborhood was in the 90s when I last saw it. Twenty some years ago when my grandparents were still alive they took me and my wife on a driving tour of Detroit to show her places where relatives had lived, businesses they owned etc and all that was left was either burned out shells, foundations or dangerous ghetto. I have heard stories all my life of what Detroit was when my family moved up north decades ago, and I have watched thier city ripped apart. I don't remember living there myself as I was too young, however I do know the area and have a reason I feel the way I do about it. The Michigan I loved was the lakes, the woods, the hunting and fishing etc. Despite my family connections to Detroit my life living in Michigan was alslways far from SE Michigan so I admit that I really don't know what it's like to live there as you do. I have far more experience living in western and northern Michigan. My perspective may not be popular to you but trust me when I say there are many people in western and northern Michigan who have similar sentiments. In fact it amounts to downright embarrassment every time more Detroit or Flint problems become national news or every year when that list of Americans worst cities is released again.

Last edited by danielj72; 07-11-2017 at 01:42 PM..
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