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Old 07-14-2017, 08:25 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 1,634,457 times
Reputation: 2026

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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
for the record, do you think anyone in their right mind would have any doubt about the attractions that Philadelphia has to offer. You do realize that when people make the absurd type of statement that you were reacting to that that we get it: he obviously is a guy who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Is Philadelphia a great city? Unquestionably: YES!!! Not really up for debate.

And you think you've got problems? I've got a guy here on this thread who is convinced Chicago has gone down the tubes and the federal government is going to take it over.

Meanwhile, if I go downtown, to areas along the lakefront, all over the North Side and good parts of the South and West, I see cranes everywhere. It's a boom town.

Look, Upstate, the people who don't get it....well....just don't get it.
The problem is he is spreading false information and people who don't know about Philly thought that was true.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn2036 View Post
The problem is he is spreading false information and people who don't know about Philly thought that was true.
Welcome to the internet.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:30 PM
 
2,545 posts, read 1,634,457 times
Reputation: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Welcome to the internet.
That is why you need to refute those info as much as you can
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn2036 View Post
That is why you need to refute those info as much as you can
Should we really be convincing idiots out there who don't have the concept of Chicago and Philadelphia as being truly great American cities? Are these folks worth it? Or even capable of learning.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
2,243 posts, read 3,461,106 times
Reputation: 3101
Cleveland should be in this discussion but, like Oakland, this seems to be changing (maybe there's a Larry O'Brien Trophy effect?). Cleveland is still the scary central city in Northeast Ohio and yes, a lot of areas of Cleveland proper are really far gone, but I get the sense that people in the rest of Northeast Ohio increasingly view Cleveland's problems as: 1) fixable and 2) worth fixing. I get this sense much more than I did, say, 10 years ago.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:55 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,294,216 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns View Post
I get the sense that people in the rest of Northeast Ohio increasingly view Cleveland's problems as: 1) fixable and 2) worth fixing. I get this sense much more than I did, say, 10 years ago.
Is Cleveland a candidate for gentrification?
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,717 posts, read 7,669,607 times
Reputation: 7619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Randal Walker View Post
Is Cleveland a candidate for gentrification?
Lots of gentrification already been under way in Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, Tremont, downtown.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Missouri
392 posts, read 1,043,157 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
seriously? I imagine because metro St. Louis is a lot bigger than the metro areas of Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa, Lexington, etc.

Who cares about city population? It's metro population that counts. And St. Louis is still formidable.

So let me get this straight: San Francisco should be buried in shame, being not only the fourth largest city in California, but (gasp) the second largest city in its own Bay Area (to San Jose).

C'mon, do you really think St. Louis is in the same class as Omaha, Wichita, Tulsa, and Lexington?
The problem is that's not the trend in America for bigger metro areas to have such a low populated anchor city continually in decline. I don't have all day to compare stats but I glanced at the top 40 or so metros and cities by population in the U.S. I was only able to find one major metro area that has a lower percentage of residents living in the city versus the surrounding suburbs and exurbs than St. Louis does. That city is Atlanta. St. Louis has 11% of the metro area living in the city of St. Louis.

Let's do some comparisons for frame of reference. Chicago has 28% living in the city. San Diego has 42%. Columbus 42%. Nashville 35%. You brought up San Francisco, so they have 20% but that doesn't tell the whole story there. They also have Oakland, another major city right next door in their metro area, so when we include them both it's 30%.

People always talk about how St. Louis has so much in common with the rust belt cities. So let's compare some. Detroit 16% and that's after purging 30% of residents since 2000. Nobody would argue that the city of Detroit is in full free fall. It's bankrupt and rotting. Cleveland 19%. Buffalo 23%.

Let's compare St. Louis to the two other closest MSAs in size to it in America. Denver 24%. Baltimore 22%. I've seen it argued before that Baltimore is the most similar city to St. Louis in the nation. Their main city has twice the number of residents as a percentage of their overall MSA than St. Louis does. Hell while we're at it, let's compare St. Louis to the two most similar cities in terms of just raw city population. Lexington 63%. Stockton 42%.

So you see, however you slice it up, St. Louis is inept compared to other cities. It doesn't matter if we compare regionally similar cities, economically similar cities, cities with similar populations or MSAs with similar populations. The city of St. Louis is always subpar.

St. Louis is one of the worst, if not the worst anchor city for any MSA/CSA in the country. As evidenced by the population purge, the loss of major corporate influence, including major sports teams and the crime epidemic. It's been dubbed the, "Murder Capital of the Nation" and "Most Dangerous City in America" by major news outlets and statistic bureaus. Couple this with everything I've said in my previous post in this thread about St. Louis and no matter what, St. Louis gets my vote for most inept and hated city. I live in the St. Louis MSA and I hate the actual city of St. Louis. I do however, really like the State of Missouri. Btw, I see you're from Chicago. Chicago is a great city with world class amenities, unlike St. Louis, which is a decrepit, cesspool other than a handful of somewhat decent neighborhoods.
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:25 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,483 posts, read 2,223,013 times
Reputation: 2353
You do realize that the primary reason why many of those cities you mentioned have that many people living in the core city vs their suburbs is due to annexation, don't you? St. Louis doesn't have that option due to the city/county split, so it's forced to stay roughly 66 sq miles in size. Kansas City on the other end of the state is roughly 315 sq miles. That makes it geographically larger than Chicago (234 sq miles). Nashville is roughly the same size geographically as all of St. Louis County. Dropping something the size of San Diego onto metro St. Louis would get you probably everything within I-270 and then some. Merge St. Louis City with the County and you get a more even playing field in terms of percentage of residents within the core city. That's what cities like Indianapolis, Nashville, and Louisville did. KCMO I don't believe merged fully with its county, but it had the ability to annex large swathes of its surrounding area. I also wouldn't count St. Louis being able to maintain such a sizable MSA as a negative. That's something many of its Rust Belt peers have struggled to do, whereas St. Louis did a pretty good job catching people leaving the city with its suburbs.

As for sports teams, the black eye is the Rams, but I don't know if anyone is crying over an NBA team that lasted a year after WWII or the one that left in the 60s. Corporate relocations is also hurting virtually all cities. There's very few nationwide winners at this point. Something definitely needs to be down about the crime though. It's one of the primary things holding the city back at this point. St. Louis isn't alone though in that regard either.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:45 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,739 posts, read 6,134,571 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
When I lived in Baltimore County for many years, people in my neighborhood only went downtown occassionally for sporting events or special ocassions to go clubbing around Power Plant. Many suburbanites stick to Towson and White Marsh when going out. Most of my friends who still live in Maryland prefer going out in Towson more so than downtown. Also there is also resentment about the city taking a lot of state tax money and having nothing to show for it. Baltimore City is actually a perfect example about no matter how much money you pump into Democrat liberal social programs nothing really changes. And people have avoided the city even more since the riots.

One city with a rough reputation that is still quite loved by its suburbanites is New Orleans, though New Orleans isn't quite as completely crime ridden as Baltimore or Detroit.
The riot residue has pretty much washed away. There are always people downtown. The riots weren't a week-long festival like some people believe, it happened for a few hours on two non-consecutive days, and that was it. Almost exactly a year later, there was a week long Light City festival that brought hundreds of thousands of people to the city (at night no less) without any issue. Two years later, Baltimore is currently building more than possibly all of it's suburbs combined.

Arts Scape is currently going on as well, so there will be hundreds of thousands of people in the city this weekend as well.... This event will last longer than the riots did.
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