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View Poll Results: Are river cities "landlocked?"
Of course, what kind of question is this? Who cares about a river? 27 46.55%
No, their location on the water is as significant as any other ocean, lake, etc. 8 13.79%
It's complicated, somewhere between coastal and landlocked 23 39.66%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2017, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
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It's also important to recognize that the definition of the term "inland waterway" not to mention its ,marketability, has changed over time.

The Lower Mississippi (south of Cairo, IL) is essentially "slack water" without too strong a current. As with the Hudson in earlier days, that allowed for navigation via the classic 'steam riverboat", possibly with a barge or two lashed alongside, or in tow.

But the narrower the stream, the stronger the current. So eventually, many rivers -- the Upper Mississippi, the Ohio, the Missouri, the Tennessee, the Illinois and the Cumberland, were converted to de facto canals via the use of locks and dams. And the Erie Canal (1825) which enabled slack water navigation from New York to Chicago (and eventually, Duluth) via the Great Lakes, so reduced the cost of moving grain, ore and other industrial basics, that its completion set off one of the strongest and longest economic booms in American history.

However, the development of inland navigation fell into the realm of the U S Army Corps of Engineers, and thus under political influence; this was nowhere more evident than in the Arkansas River Navigation Project, a successful, but very costly effort to make inland ports of Little Rock, AR, and tiny Catoosa, OK, near Tulsa. And in the wake of the deregulation movement of the late Seventies and early Eighties, lower rail rates on bulk commodities made barge operations less profitable in many markets. The coming of the St Lawrence Seaway in the late Fifties also doomed most Erie Canal freight moves (though it survives as a recreational waterway, now operated in conjunction with the New York State Thruway). and towboat/barge traffic remains an important player on the Lower Mississippi and some of its tributaries.

And it might also be noted that river and canal barge traffic remains an important factor in European freight transport, in no small part because Great Britain and the Low Counties developed many canals before the coming of railroads c.1825. The Rhine and Danube were also improved (dredged) at this time. The Kiel Canal links the Baltic and North Seas by skirting Denmark, and a French canal links the Mediterranean and Atlantic via Toulouse; hence, rail freight never attained the prominence in Europe that it has in North America.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-24-2017 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:47 AM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
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I guess you could say a city is landlocked if its river is not navigable to oceangoing ships. Yes cities like St. Louis and Memphis have a lot of barge traffic and associated port activity (so does Huntington, WV which is very inland) but the Mississippi River system isn't navigable to most oceangoing ships past Baton Rouge. New Orleans and Baton Rouge are river cities that are not landlocked.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:46 AM
 
2,166 posts, read 1,466,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
How many continents can you access without traveling through another state or country? If that answer is 7 you're coastal if that answer is 1 you're landlocked.
Really stupid definition. Who cares about state lines for this? It is really about the close proximity of large bodies of water and how they interplay with the city. Your definition = Atlanta is not landlocked but Philly is???
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:18 AM
 
9,385 posts, read 9,548,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Really stupid definition. Who cares about state lines for this? It is really about the close proximity of large bodies of water and how they interplay with the city. Your definition = Atlanta is not landlocked but Philly is???
Philly really is at the headwaters of Delaware Bay, the river is still tidal at Philly. It is still naturally accessible to the open ocean fairly quickly.

I really should have said Metro as opposed to state because we are talking about cities not states.

But Philly is a very different situation than Chicago where you need to go through a bunch of Locks to get to the ocean. The Erie Canal was built to connect the Great lakes to the Atlantic without depending on Canada.

Landlocked isn't a slur, its a geopolitical reality.
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Old 07-25-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
2,521 posts, read 1,179,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
But, really, I don't believe the OP didn't count the Great Lakes. There are definitions of "seas" that fit the Great Lakes....a rose is a rose, and a huge body of water as an entire state border, doesn't make that state landlocked...not by any means.
Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan border the Caspian Sea but are considered landlocked.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Cbus
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It's all relative.

Cincinnati is landlocked if you compare it to Miami or Seattle. However, as a Columbus resident I feel more landlocked than Cincy because our waterways (The Scioto and The Olentangy) are not navigable at all and don't seem that large in size.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by srfoskey View Post
Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan border the Caspian Sea but are considered landlocked.
When I'm standing downtown in either Milwaukee or Chicago, and when I look out over the water and can't see the other side, you will never convince me those cities are landlocked. Say what you will, but it's just water, as far as the eye can see. If that's landlocked, it sure is beautiful.

Last edited by Enean; 07-25-2017 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:59 PM
 
4,953 posts, read 8,543,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Yes. If you're not on a coast you're landlocked, imo. Especially if you're in a landlocked state. Nashville, Columbia, Memphis, St Louis, Salt Lake, DC, Phily, etc, they're landlocked.

I would not count Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Erie, etc. The Great Lakes are so big they have tides, beaches, and even effect the weather, and they're the size of states themselves.
How is DC landlocked when you can sail down the Potomac River into the the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay to the Atlantic Ocean?
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:33 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC's Finest View Post
How is DC landlocked when you can sail down the Potomac River into the the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay to the Atlantic Ocean?
I don't think the Potomac river in Washington DC is deep enough to support oceangoing vessels in for example the way that the Mississippi in New Orleans is. The port of Baltimore is really located on the Patapsco River where it empties into Chesapeake Bay and parts of Baltimore County border the bay. It takes 12 hours to reach the actual mouth of the Chesapeake at Hampton Roads on a cruise ship.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:09 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,480 posts, read 2,228,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
You raise valid points about the way StL interacts with its riverfront and the reasons it does so, but doesn't Memphis, a bit downstream and arguably with many of the same conditions, do a better job of interacting with the river?

I realize the Mississippi is different in different locations and certainly Minneapolis benefits from being on the stretch of river it is, but aren't there still places on the midsection of the river that do a better job than StL?
I haven't been to Memphis since I was a child, so I cannot comment on how it interacts with the river in comparison to St. Louis. I do know that the metro St. Louis region has various major rivers converging on it, such as the Missouri, Illinois, and Mississippi, and that many of St. Louis suburbs are built on floodplains. That's how stuff like this happens:
Two catastrophic floods in less than two years wasn't just a case of bad luck | Local | stltoday.com

People were joking that the city was something of an island a few months back when the suburbs around it all started to flood.
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