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View Poll Results: Are river cities "landlocked?"
Of course, what kind of question is this? Who cares about a river? 27 46.55%
No, their location on the water is as significant as any other ocean, lake, etc. 8 13.79%
It's complicated, somewhere between coastal and landlocked 23 39.66%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Speaking of this topic, read a nifty article today about a designer who made a "river map" in the same vein as subway maps.



https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/...-lines/534432/

Even though there aren't many major cities on here, when looking at it from this perspective, it lends visual credence to the idea that most river cities are indeed "landlocked".
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:54 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
When I'm standing downtown in either Milwaukee or Chicago, and when I look out over the water and can't see the other side, you will never convince me those cities are landlocked. Say what you will, but it's just water, as far as the eye can see. If that's landlocked, it sure is beautiful.
Then I guess it would be difficult to convince you there is such a thing as a landlocked sea.

I think a lot of people have a personal definition of landlocked that obviates the existence of water or any water based route to the ocean.

All landlocked means is 'without direct connection to the world's oceans'. It says nothing about the existence of water, even massive bodies of water including inland seas.

To put it another way, if a body of water is surrounded by land, it is landlocked. The Mississippi River and the Great Lakes are surrounded by land thus they and the cities and states on them are definitively landlocked.

If a body of water surrounds land, it is an ocean, and land or extensions of water such as gulfs and bays that touch it are not landlocked. The Gulf of Mexico and San Francisco Bay are extensions of the ocean, thus they and the cities and states on them are not landlocked.

Ultimately, access to the sea is not a criterium of the definition. The place where the definition does blur in my opinion is estuarine areas very close to the ocean where brackish and salt water mix such as the case in Philadelphia, just up the Hudson from New York Harbor, or in the case of fjords.

Last edited by ABQConvict; 07-26-2017 at 11:04 AM..
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Old 07-26-2017, 10:57 AM
 
2,727 posts, read 5,148,433 times
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Boise is a river city and is landlocked.

Lewiston, Idaho is a river city but is the furthest inland seaport on the West Coast. 465 river miles inland from the coast of Oregon.
http://portoflewiston.com/
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:00 PM
 
2,003 posts, read 1,017,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Then I guess it would be difficult to convince you there is such a thing as a landlocked sea.

I think a lot of people have a personal definition of landlocked that obviates the existence of water or any water based route to the ocean.

All landlocked means is 'without direct connection to the world's oceans'. It says nothing about the existence of water, even massive bodies of water including inland seas.

To put it another way, if a body of water is surrounded by land, it is landlocked. The Mississippi River and the Great Lakes are surrounded by land thus they and the cities and states on them are definitively landlocked.

If a body of water surrounds land, it is an ocean, and land or extensions of water such as gulfs and bays that touch it are not landlocked. The Gulf of Mexico and San Francisco Bay are extensions of the ocean, thus they and the cities and states on them are not landlocked.

Ultimately, access to the sea is not a criterium of the definition. The place where the definition does blur in my opinion is estuarine areas very close to the ocean where brackish and salt water mix such as the case in Philadelphia, just up the Hudson from New York Harbor, or in the case of fjords.
What I'm saying, I guess, is that the ocean isn't the be-all, end-all, to everyone. Whatever the definition is, I am saying, it doesn't matter to me. When I am in a state with an entire water border, whether (by definition) it's considered landlocked (or not), I look out the window, and laugh.

https://www.google.com/search?q=wisc...w=1920&bih=974

Last edited by Enean; 07-26-2017 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:19 PM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,461,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CityGuyForLife View Post
Speaking of this topic, read a nifty article today about a designer who made a "river map" in the same vein as subway maps.



https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/...-lines/534432/

Even though there aren't many major cities on here, when looking at it from this perspective, it lends visual credence to the idea that most river cities are indeed "landlocked".

They completely missed some major rivers in the Mid-Atlantic: the Delaware, Susquehanna, Potomac, and the James rivers, which all have cities that many people consider to be in the " partially landlocked" or not landlocked category .
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
They completely missed some major rivers in the Midatlantic: the Delaware, Susquehanna, Potomac, and the James river, which all have cities that many people consider to be in the " partially landlocked" category .
Yea, that was the first thing I noticed too. But per the article, the designer "tried to include the waterways most important to the shipping and transportation sectors, though for aesthetic reasons such as avoiding clutter and weird-looking connections he had to leave some out." Guess the MidAtlantic would've looked to cluttered, in his eyes.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
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It might also be worth noting that the definition of an 'inland waterway" has changed over the years.

At 400+ miles. the Susquehanna is considered the nation's longest "non-navigable" river. But lumber was floated down during the "spring freshet" on both the North (Wilkes-Barre, Elmira, Binghamton) and West (Williamsport) Branches. A brief fling with Hudson/Mississippi style steamboats ended in 1826 when the boiler of the Susquehanna exploded while trying to surmount a set of rapids at Berwick. That eventually led developers to settle for a canal, the primary cargo of which was anthracite coal; it also connected with the system of canals in New York State via the Finger Lakes, But the capacity of the boats wasn't all that much, so while they competed for a while on price alone the railroads eventually won out, as was also the case with the parallel Schuylkill, Lehigh, Delaware and Raritan canals.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-26-2017 at 08:49 PM.. Reason: miles, the Susquehann is the
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:30 AM
 
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Chicago is landlocked in that it isn't on an ocean, although if asked if I associate the city as locked away from water or lacking a large presence of water in its everday life with the lake and the extremely popular river, I don't think of it as "landlocked".

I stand at the shores, near my house, and hear the waves many times, see them when its windy to any degree, feel the breeze within a few blocks of the lake, certainly can't see to the other side. I take boat trips for hours out on the lake, gaze at it as I fly over when it seems never-ending, how small the city seems hugged up against it's massive expanse.

So yes, it's landlocked, but figuratively I don't think of it that way. I don't feel different when I go to the ocean in LA or South Carolina or Florida for the most part - I see huge bodies of blue water. I don't fall to my knees in tears at the sight of the ocean or feel I'm somewhere more magical, but that's just me, it's all preference of course. I've never really cared that much that I was near an ocean. It's water.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:34 AM
 
Location: East Coast
474 posts, read 273,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
Chicago is landlocked in that it isn't on an ocean, although if asked if I associate the city as locked away from water or lacking a large presence of water in its everday life with the lake and the extremely popular river, I don't think of it as "landlocked".

I stand at the shores, near my house, and hear the waves many times, see them when its windy to any degree, feel the breeze within a few blocks of the lake, certainly can't see to the other side. I take boat trips for hours out on the lake, gaze at it as I fly over when it seems never-ending, how small the city seems hugged up against it's massive expanse.

So yes, it's landlocked, but figuratively I don't think of it that way. I don't feel different when I go to the ocean in LA or South Carolina or Florida for the most part - I see huge bodies of blue water. I don't fall to my knees in tears at the sight of the ocean or feel I'm somewhere more magical, but that's just me, it's all preference of course. I've never really cared that much that I was near an ocean. It's water.
^ This is perfect and sensible.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:39 AM
 
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I think of cities along the shores of the Great Lakes as technically landlocked but not functionally.
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