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View Poll Results: Where?
New York City 16 3.10%
Greater Boston 32 6.20%
Philly 38 7.36%
DC/N. Virginia 50 9.69%
Raleigh/NC Research Triangle 32 6.20%
Austin 48 9.30%
San Francisco/Bay Area/Silicon Valley 13 2.52%
Baltimore 11 2.13%
Toronto 33 6.40%
Pittsburgh 35 6.78%
Chicago 99 19.19%
Atlanta 109 21.12%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-13-2017, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
128 posts, read 109,633 times
Reputation: 252

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
Correction, I misspoke a bit.

Boston hasn't "formally" decided to go the Denver approach with this just yet. It's only so far been a contemplation among some factions within city-council. Boston's city-council member, a person named Jackson is running for mayor and replied that he wouldn't give Amazon a handout. He's running against the current mayor, someone named Walsh, who didn't answer the question on whether he would or not. They were openly debating on the debate floor for election.

So with that said, I'll pull Boston back out from the elimination list. At least for now until more details emerge on Boston's financial position on the matter. I re-figured that it would be premature to eliminate them on basic suppositions but I may have misinterpreted some of the minor details in this one case. That said, I don't think Boston would shell out the mega-billions needed to land this HQ2 but I presume the city's hope is that they make the best offer they can and hope that their attributes have convinced Amazon to give them a steep discount compared to the competition. That's not enough for Amazon IMO. I do think it is telling that factions within the city government are opposed to large incentives though.

Though, it seems irrefutable, given the company's language in the RFP, it's plain as day they want their money and they want you to break bank to give them that money. The winner is going to have to write a huge check, regardless of who the winner is. No city can dodge having to provide enormous corporate welfare, it's an open field competition, if you don't, somewhere else will (plenty of somewhere elses at that) and that somewhere else will land it.
Walsh is heavily favored to win, is a former union leader, and very pro-construction. Walsh (along w Gov. Baker) was instrumental in getting GE to relocate to Boston (with incentive$). Boston and Mass are going to play ball with incentives for Amazon

 
Old 10-14-2017, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,631 posts, read 8,318,123 times
Reputation: 7587
I looked into how much each state spends on doling out tax incentives and subsidies and stuff of that nature. I figured that you folks would likely be into this information as well given how large a component tax breaks are for HQ2 and how much the discussion has revolved around corporate welfare.

I'll keep it to just the states that offer more than $1 Billion per year in incentives/subsidies.

Subsidies and incentives provided by states per year (current):
01. Texas: $19.1 Billion
02. Michigan: $6.65 Billion
03. Pennsylvania: $4.84 Billion
04. California: $4.17 Billion
05. New York: $4.06 Billion
06. Florida: $3.98 Billion
07. Ohio: $3.24 Billion
08. Washington (state): $2.35 Billion
09. Massachusetts: $2.26 Billion
10. Oklahoma: $2.19 Billion
11. Louisiana: $1.79 Billion
12. Tennessee: $1.58 Billion
13. West Virginia: $1.57 Billion
14. Wisconsin: $1.53 Billion
15. Illinois: $1.51 Billion
16. Arizona: $1.47 Billion
17. Kentucky: $1.41 Billion
18. Georgia: $1.4 Billion
19. Nebraska: $1.39 Billion
20. Virginia: $1.29 Billion
21. Kansas: $1.01 Billion

Explore Government Subsidies - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

You can choose individual states and it breaks down the incentives/subsidies even further by what type of incentives were handed out and to which corporations and how much. As well as how many times. It has both state programs and grants to companies and/or corporations. Needless to say, the interactive tool is useful. Hope you folks make use of it as well. Good stuff in there.

Last edited by Trafalgar Law; 10-14-2017 at 11:57 AM..
 
Old 10-14-2017, 11:42 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,362,170 times
Reputation: 8281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
I looked into how much each state spends on doling out tax incentives and subsidies and stuff of that nature. I figured that you folks would likely be into this information as well given how large a component tax breaks are for HQ2 and how much the discussion has revolved around corporate welfare.

I'll keep it to just the states that offer more than $1 Billion per year in incentives/subsidies.

Subsidies and incentives provided by states per year (current):
01. Texas: $19.1 Billion
02. Michigan: $6.65 Billion
03. Pennsylvania: $4.84 Billion
04. California: $4.17 Billion
05. New York: $4.06 Billion
06. Florida: $3.98 Billion
07. Ohio: $3.24 Billion
08. Washington (state): $2.35 Billion
09. Massachusetts: $2.26 Billion
10. Oklahoma: $2.19 Billion
11. Louisiana: $1.79 Billion
12. Tennessee: $1.58 Billion
13. West Virginia: $1.57 Billion
14. Wisconsin: $1.53 Billion
15. Illinois: $1.51 Billion
16. Arizona: $1.47 Billion
17. Kentucky: $1.41 Billion
18. Georgia: $1.4 Billion
19. Nebraska: $1.39 Billion
20. Virginia: $1.29 Billion
21. Kansas: $1.01 Billion

Explore Government Subsidies - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

You can choose individual states and it breaks down the incentives/subsidies even further by what type of incentives were handed out and to which corporations and how much. As well as how many times. It has both state programs and grants to companies and/or corporations. Needless to say, the interactive tool is useful. Hope you folks make use of it as well. Good stuff in there.

Wow... Texas doles out nearly 5 times the incentives of California? That's crazy. If Amazon is truly just looking for a break I can see Texas just obliterating the competition. But can Austin or Dallas really command the presence of workers Amazon desires?
 
Old 10-15-2017, 01:02 AM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 932,747 times
Reputation: 1119
Facts Kill Rhetoric........

You're input is interesting and for the most part I agree with you on cities that don't have a hope in hell.
I do think that Chicago, Philly, Washington, and Boston are the US frontrunners but I think you are underestimating Montreal and especially Toronto's chances.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 07:37 AM
 
29,882 posts, read 27,333,728 times
Reputation: 18427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts Kill Rhetoric View Post
I looked into how much each state spends on doling out tax incentives and subsidies and stuff of that nature. I figured that you folks would likely be into this information as well given how large a component tax breaks are for HQ2 and how much the discussion has revolved around corporate welfare.

I'll keep it to just the states that offer more than $1 Billion per year in incentives/subsidies.

Subsidies and incentives provided by states per year (current):
01. Texas: $19.1 Billion
02. Michigan: $6.65 Billion
03. Pennsylvania: $4.84 Billion
04. California: $4.17 Billion
05. New York: $4.06 Billion
06. Florida: $3.98 Billion
07. Ohio: $3.24 Billion
08. Washington (state): $2.35 Billion
09. Massachusetts: $2.26 Billion
10. Oklahoma: $2.19 Billion
11. Louisiana: $1.79 Billion
12. Tennessee: $1.58 Billion
13. West Virginia: $1.57 Billion
14. Wisconsin: $1.53 Billion
15. Illinois: $1.51 Billion
16. Arizona: $1.47 Billion
17. Kentucky: $1.41 Billion
18. Georgia: $1.4 Billion
19. Nebraska: $1.39 Billion
20. Virginia: $1.29 Billion
21. Kansas: $1.01 Billion

Explore Government Subsidies - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com

You can choose individual states and it breaks down the incentives/subsidies even further by what type of incentives were handed out and to which corporations and how much. As well as how many times. It has both state programs and grants to companies and/or corporations. Needless to say, the interactive tool is useful. Hope you folks make use of it as well. Good stuff in there.
Kansas, Kansas, Kansas...tsk tsk tsk
 
Old 10-15-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,843 posts, read 2,975,563 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
https://www.uschamber.com/sites/defa...s/itm_2017.pdf


Most innovative cities


1 Boston
2 Bay
3 Philly
4 San Diego
5 Austin
Every Texan outside of Austin just threw stuff at their screen because of #5.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,843 posts, read 2,975,563 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Boston is certainly not a cool city. People move to Boston for the jobs and institutions that it has. The city, itself is not aspirational or cool. I donít think Bostonís image is cooler than the Phillies, itís simply whiter.
It's not NYC or San Fran, but it is well thought of in many circles. It's bustling, has character, history, public transportation, great scenery.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,843 posts, read 2,975,563 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Wow... Texas doles out nearly 5 times the incentives of California? That's crazy. If Amazon is truly just looking for a break I can see Texas just obliterating the competition. But can Austin or Dallas really command the presence of workers Amazon desires?
Now you know why people are moving to Texas in droves. It's not the weather.
 
Old 10-15-2017, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Tokyo, Japan
6,631 posts, read 8,318,123 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
Facts Kill Rhetoric........

You're input is interesting and for the most part I agree with you on cities that don't have a hope in hell.
I do think that Chicago, Philly, Washington, and Boston are the US frontrunners but I think you are underestimating Montreal and especially Toronto's chances.
I've stated on numerous occasions throughout this thread that my Top 3 picks would be Boston, Chicago, Toronto. In that same order. Following those, then I've had Denver, Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, New York, Washington D.C., and the San Francisco Bay Area. I have since eliminated Denver though.

Amazon's #1 criteria is probably technical talent and access to the talent pool and/or the institutions/schools to foster that talent.

By Amazon's language in their RFP and through common sense, I would surmise to say that subsidies and incentives are a strong #2 most important criteria point. It's the bottomline, whatever city gives them the most of what they are asking for AND gives them the money they feel they are entitled to, will win it.

With Denver's bid suggesting that it is not interested in getting in a bidding war, you can just as well eliminate them straight from contention. Amazon has dozens of other options that are or will comply on the corporate welfare front, places, by the way, that can match or exceed Denver's stock of technical tech talent and culture.
 
Old 10-16-2017, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Sweet Home Chicago!
5,182 posts, read 3,712,832 times
Reputation: 6070
The problem with a Canadian city is the PITA to travel between US and Canada. Air Travel is already a PITA and I doubt a company the size of Amazon would opt to put their employees through even more pain by having to deal with passports, customs, etc. Also, how would they handle the many employees who want or need to transfer to HQ2 if they are an American citizen?

For these reasons, I believe any city outside the US is out.

My top three "guesses" are Chicago, Boston or DC.
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