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View Poll Results: Where?
New York City 16 3.10%
Greater Boston 32 6.20%
Philly 38 7.36%
DC/N. Virginia 50 9.69%
Raleigh/NC Research Triangle 32 6.20%
Austin 48 9.30%
San Francisco/Bay Area/Silicon Valley 13 2.52%
Baltimore 11 2.13%
Toronto 33 6.40%
Pittsburgh 35 6.78%
Chicago 99 19.19%
Atlanta 109 21.12%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2018, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,414 posts, read 11,913,851 times
Reputation: 10533

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_General View Post
Just posing a question, did the DC area get 3 in the last 20 and NY area get 2 in the last 20 because its dealing with different state (or DC) governments in VA, DC, MD and NY, NJ.

Basically I live in Boston so I'll use this as an example. Is Cambridge/Somerville group eliminated and only Boston still alive or does Amazon just have "Boston" in the top 20 but both pitches are still viable?
The language from the press release said something about "metro area"

My guess is they will be considering areas outside of the core cities in some cases, but only if those cities partnered with other local governments and proposed "suburban" locations as potential sites. Separate proposals by satellite cities and suburban areas are likely disqualified.

 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:28 AM
 
Location: SoCal
3,767 posts, read 2,553,386 times
Reputation: 2978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
NOVA is about 50% non-white. MOCO is around 55% non-white. PG is 40% non-black. Technically both NOVA and MOCO are more diverse than PG.
Yeah, but the majority of the diversity of these two places comes from many Asians, and some Hispanics. i doubt that there aren't many Asians working for amazon.
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:29 AM
 
766 posts, read 2,269,390 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
or maybe the middle of the two


I actually heard Dallas from a real estate industry source I the front runner


now on the apple for the oters
Every viable city is going to have real estate industry sources stating that it's a frontrunner. They all have an interest in kicking up the commercial real estate prices in their respective cities. We have the same stories in Chicago from real estate people about Amazon, too (as I'm sure is the case with every city on this list). Plus, Amazon is scooping up so much real estate everywhere (whether it's for sales offices, research centers, data centers or fulfillment centers) that it can be simultaneously true that (a) Amazon is actively looking for real estate in a plethora of large metro areas and (b) none of that real estate activity has anything to do with HQ2.

The final 20 list that Amazon created isn't actually that helpful in deducing who they'll actually choose (as all of the realistic choices are still on there), although I did notice right away (as others did) that 3 separate DC metro area locales were finalists. It wouldn't shock me at all if the DC area was picked because of the existing Jeff Bezos connections there (his house and ownership of the Washington Post), but note that Maryland, DC and Virginia are all distinct political entities that don't really work together, so they all submitted separate bids. The same could be said with respect to New York City and Newark. In a contrasting example, the "Chicago bid" is actually a State of Illinois bid that includes suburban sites (e.g. the soon-to-be-vacated McDonald's headquarters in Oak Brook and former Motorola headquarters space in Schaumburg) as well as the city. So, that single "Chicago bid" is the really the functional equivalent of those 3 DC/VA/MD bids put together. I'm sure other cities were really part of "regional" bids in the same manner.

Probably the biggest impact of this list is for the cities that were generally unexpected to be finalists, particularly Indianapolis and Columbus. I don't think it's realistic that either of those cities will get Amazon HQ2, but the fact that they even got to this round is a big deal when they're making pitches to other businesses in the future. A lot of people probably thought the only Midwest location that would make this list would be Chicago (while a perceived corporate-friendly place like Houston would have thought to have been on a list of 20 even if it wasn't a frontrunner), so it's a very nice confidence boost for those areas. Indy and Columbus actually make some sense if you're looking at it from an "access to tech talent" perspective - Indy is within an hour of Purdue (top computer science and engineering programs) and Indiana University (top business program) and centrally located to all of the Big Ten universities, while Columbus has the Austin state capital/flagship university combo with lower real estate costs. Both of those cities punch above their weight classes when it comes to tech talent access, which is something that a lot of people outside of the Midwest probably don't realize (and why a stamp of approval of sorts from Amazon has a much bigger impact compared to a place like Boston, DC or even Raleigh making this list).

It's also interesting that Miami is included. It's a bit of an enigma where there's a lot of extreme wealth and it's the financial and cultural bridge between the United States and Latin America, but much of that wealth is imported from elsewhere (e.g. wealthy New Yorkers and Latin American expats). It also punches below its weight class in terms of access to tech talent considering the size of its metro area. Still, the state of Florida is perceived to be business-friendly and, to be sure, if you're trying to sell young tech workers to upend their lives and move somewhere else, the Miami location is definitely a plus. (Miami is essentially the antithesis of a place like Indy or Columbus - the tech worker market is actually inferior to those Midwestern locales, but the thought of moving to Miami is going to *sound* awesome to the average young tech worker by comparison.)

Finally, it will be interesting to see the self-evaluation of some cities that didn't make the cut. Houston, Charlotte and Detroit come to mind. If this was a top 5 list that was a true honing in on a handful of cities, then I don't think anyone would be bothered if they didn't make the cut. However, when it's a list as large as 20 cities and includes unexpected places like Indianapolis and Columbus, it's an interesting reflection point. This is particularly true for Sun Belt places like Houston and Charlotte that have been used to being told that they're so fast-growing that businesses just naturally want to gravitate toward them over the Northeast or Midwest. Plus, seeing smaller in-state rivals make a top 20 list while they didn't is going to result in some hand-wringing. Meanwhile, Detroit emphasized their urban amenities that were growing (sort of pitching that they could create something akin to downtown Chicago at lower costs), but they were beat out by the more sprawl/suburban-oriented Indianapolis and Columbus in their own Midwest region. (The inclusion of Chicago and sorta-Midwestern/sorta-Eastern Pittsburgh shouldn't have been surprises to any objective person.)

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that it's still not clear what Amazon is emphasizing the most here. The costs of living and doing business run from the most expensive that you can get (e.g. NYC/DC/Boston) to very inexpensive (e.g. Indianapolis and Columbus). They also range from extremely urban (e.g. NYC/Chicago) to very suburban (e.g. Atlanta/Dallas). Toronto is thrown in there just to keep us on our toes in looking at Canada as an option. It's definitely a diverse list of cities, which is perfect for keeping the debate going about what Amazon really wants for the next few months until they make a final choice.
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:37 AM
 
29,889 posts, read 27,333,728 times
Reputation: 18435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebck120 View Post
That's correct. PG didn't make it so not all of the DC suburbs made it as I had stated.

I'm just being blunt though with PGs original potential against it's peers.. looking at current situations, where companies already chose to be based in the area and where the talent pool for the DC area lives in the more likely candidates are Moco and Nova.. you can keep your politically correct blinders on. And looking at who made the shortlist clearly PG had the weaker story.
What you're not taking into account is the fact that all bids were considered separately. As part of the DC metropolitan area, you can believe that PG is soooo much weaker than places like Columbus and Indianapolis (which are fine metros in their own right)--which would say a lot more about you as a person.

I'm pretty much done with you. Keep commenting if you'd like.
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:41 AM
 
2,783 posts, read 1,628,289 times
Reputation: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean1the1 View Post
Yeah, but the majority of the diversity of these two places comes from many Asians, and some Hispanics. i doubt that there aren't many Asians working for amazon.
Not really. Nova has areas that are 20-30% black. MOCO has more blacks than Asians. Also one more thing to add. People saying D.C is now the frontrunner need to keep in mind that the way the D.C metro is divided into 3 states means they pretty much had to include all 3 areas. For example they could be considering multiple a
locations in the Atlanta metro
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:42 AM
 
2,518 posts, read 2,265,374 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
What you're not taking into account is the fact that all bids were considered separately. As part of the DC metropolitan area, you can believe that PG is soooo much weaker than places like Columbus and Indianapolis (which are fine metros in their own right)--which would say a lot more about you as a person.

I'm pretty much done with you. Keep commenting if you'd like.
It's all good man. PG didn't make it and Nova/Moco/Indianapolis did... that's the factual story and you can twist or reflect on that story however you want but considering Marriot just chose to keep in headquarters in Moco, Nestle just moved to Arlington and that most companies based in the area are in Nova, Moco and DC should suggest PG's weakness is attracting companies.
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,341 posts, read 55,131,075 times
Reputation: 15407
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
That surprised me. For all the flack tech firms receive these days for not having a diverse enough workforce you'd think a mecca of black professionals like Prince George's County would be preferable in suburban DC to lily-white (and Asian) NoVA and MoCo.
Not to you personally but generally speaking, those criticisms are ridiculous, at best.

Only 4% of STEM grads are Black and yet the industry is criticized?
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,845 posts, read 2,975,563 times
Reputation: 3394
Merge the DC proposals and there's your winner. I would disregard "inside sources" as they may just want to sound smart. I've heard Denver and Austin sources believe it's theirs, and of course Atlanta as well.

I think the Austin bid had zero incentives?
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:49 AM
 
7,700 posts, read 4,554,568 times
Reputation: 8376
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Not to you personally but generally speaking, those criticisms are ridiculous, at best.

Only 4% of STEM grads are Black and yet the industry is criticized?
There are a couple of fallacies here. First and foremost, much of STEM has nothing to do with “tech” in the comp sci sense. Second is the high percentage of tech workers with non-STEM degrees or no degree at all. Like it or not, tech companies make a lot of hiring decisions based on “culture fit”which is often used as an excuse for excluding Blacks, Latinos, women and older professionals.
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,845 posts, read 2,975,563 times
Reputation: 3394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
Every viable city is going to have real estate industry sources stating that it's a frontrunner. They all have an interest in kicking up the commercial real estate prices in their respective cities. We have the same stories in Chicago from real estate people about Amazon, too (as I'm sure is the case with every city on this list). Plus, Amazon is scooping up so much real estate everywhere (whether it's for sales offices, research centers, data centers or fulfillment centers) that it can be simultaneously true that (a) Amazon is actively looking for real estate in a plethora of large metro areas and (b) none of that real estate activity has anything to do with HQ2.

The final 20 list that Amazon created isn't actually that helpful in deducing who they'll actually choose (as all of the realistic choices are still on there), although I did notice right away (as others did) that 3 separate DC metro area locales were finalists. It wouldn't shock me at all if the DC area was picked because of the existing Jeff Bezos connections there (his house and ownership of the Washington Post), but note that Maryland, DC and Virginia are all distinct political entities that don't really work together, so they all submitted separate bids. The same could be said with respect to New York City and Newark. In a contrasting example, the "Chicago bid" is actually a State of Illinois bid that includes suburban sites (e.g. the soon-to-be-vacated McDonald's headquarters in Oak Brook and former Motorola headquarters space in Schaumburg) as well as the city. So, that single "Chicago bid" is the really the functional equivalent of those 3 DC/VA/MD bids put together. I'm sure other cities were really part of "regional" bids in the same manner.

Probably the biggest impact of this list is for the cities that were generally unexpected to be finalists, particularly Indianapolis and Columbus. I don't think it's realistic that either of those cities will get Amazon HQ2, but the fact that they even got to this round is a big deal when they're making pitches to other businesses in the future. A lot of people probably thought the only Midwest location that would make this list would be Chicago (while a perceived corporate-friendly place like Houston would have thought to have been on a list of 20 even if it wasn't a frontrunner), so it's a very nice confidence boost for those areas. Indy and Columbus actually make some sense if you're looking at it from an "access to tech talent" perspective - Indy is within an hour of Purdue (top computer science and engineering programs) and Indiana University (top business program) and centrally located to all of the Big Ten universities, while Columbus has the Austin state capital/flagship university combo with lower real estate costs. Both of those cities punch above their weight classes when it comes to tech talent access, which is something that a lot of people outside of the Midwest probably don't realize (and why a stamp of approval of sorts from Amazon has a much bigger impact compared to a place like Boston, DC or even Raleigh making this list).

It's also interesting that Miami is included. It's a bit of an enigma where there's a lot of extreme wealth and it's the financial and cultural bridge between the United States and Latin America, but much of that wealth is imported from elsewhere (e.g. wealthy New Yorkers and Latin American expats). It also punches below its weight class in terms of access to tech talent considering the size of its metro area. Still, the state of Florida is perceived to be business-friendly and, to be sure, if you're trying to sell young tech workers to upend their lives and move somewhere else, the Miami location is definitely a plus. (Miami is essentially the antithesis of a place like Indy or Columbus - the tech worker market is actually inferior to those Midwestern locales, but the thought of moving to Miami is going to *sound* awesome to the average young tech worker by comparison.)

Finally, it will be interesting to see the self-evaluation of some cities that didn't make the cut. Houston, Charlotte and Detroit come to mind. If this was a top 5 list that was a true honing in on a handful of cities, then I don't think anyone would be bothered if they didn't make the cut. However, when it's a list as large as 20 cities and includes unexpected places like Indianapolis and Columbus, it's an interesting reflection point. This is particularly true for Sun Belt places like Houston and Charlotte that have been used to being told that they're so fast-growing that businesses just naturally want to gravitate toward them over the Northeast or Midwest. Plus, seeing smaller in-state rivals make a top 20 list while they didn't is going to result in some hand-wringing. Meanwhile, Detroit emphasized their urban amenities that were growing (sort of pitching that they could create something akin to downtown Chicago at lower costs), but they were beat out by the more sprawl/suburban-oriented Indianapolis and Columbus in their own Midwest region. (The inclusion of Chicago and sorta-Midwestern/sorta-Eastern Pittsburgh shouldn't have been surprises to any objective person.)

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that it's still not clear what Amazon is emphasizing the most here. The costs of living and doing business run from the most expensive that you can get (e.g. NYC/DC/Boston) to very inexpensive (e.g. Indianapolis and Columbus). They also range from extremely urban (e.g. NYC/Chicago) to very suburban (e.g. Atlanta/Dallas). Toronto is thrown in there just to keep us on our toes in looking at Canada as an option. It's definitely a diverse list of cities, which is perfect for keeping the debate going about what Amazon really wants for the next few months until they make a final choice.
Awesome post. I wouldn't worry about the tech demographics of any of these cities. If you build it, they will come, see Seattle, Austin, Denver, etc.
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