U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Where?
New York City 16 3.10%
Greater Boston 32 6.20%
Philly 38 7.36%
DC/N. Virginia 50 9.69%
Raleigh/NC Research Triangle 32 6.20%
Austin 48 9.30%
San Francisco/Bay Area/Silicon Valley 13 2.52%
Baltimore 11 2.13%
Toronto 33 6.40%
Pittsburgh 35 6.78%
Chicago 99 19.19%
Atlanta 109 21.12%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 09-08-2017, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,389 posts, read 21,961,490 times
Reputation: 33682

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and make an impossible case for my city.

Plaza tower is an empty 45 story skyscraper with 485,000 sq ft of space. It sits on a streetcar line, and Amtrak is across the street. That is the proposed terminus for the commuter train from Baton Rouge/MSY.

Our budget shortfall comes specifically from tax breaks so we like giving big companies our tax dollars.

There's no abundance of skilled workers but it wouldn't be hard to get young people to live in New Orleans, they love it. I love it. There's about 6-7 four year universities an hour away. The two best would be Tulane and LSU.

Where building a new airport already and I think we have direct flights to all those cities already. If not, they'd be added. Bike lanes and pedestrian access is one of the easiest parts, there's no shortage of them here.

There's lots of red tape here but Amazon isn't some fancy beer garden who wants to open in a residential neighborhood.
Cultural fit may be odd, I think we'd have to get used to something like this but I also think it people wouldn't have a problem living in the city.

There's not many recreational opportunities like in Seattle but our recreation is in the city. Also pretty affordable.

But it'll never happen.

trouble is there's been this bothersome news about hurricanes lately, but come 6 months from now, who knows, that talk may have blown over by then

 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle
418 posts, read 249,867 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
People here think of mass transit as trains but in the real world it is also buses. For most of the time that Amazon has been in Seattle buses have been the backbone of its transit system. Decent bus transit is probably enough.
You would have to experience the traffic near Amazon's headquarters to realize why they want rail. It is a mess. Every day.
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Seattle
418 posts, read 249,867 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
You say that as if Seattle was a small town just a couple years ago or something...
The growth in the past 5 years has been huge - it isn't incremental growth. All of a sudden there are traffic jams day and night, transit is crowded and housing prices doubled.
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Richmond, VA
562 posts, read 543,625 times
Reputation: 1066
To put things in perspective, the Pentagon, you know headquarters of the DOD, is 6.6M square feet. Amazon is asking for 8M! Apparently, 25k people work in the Pentagon. Ultimately, Amazon expects have 50k at their HQ2. Tell me, what mid-size metro has the capability to deliver all that, ready-to-go?

You've got to really think big to get to a comfortable place with this RFP. Places like Philly, Baltimore and DC with huge projects already in the works imho are likely contenders. On the other end of the spectrum, smaller, niche markets where Amazon can basically rebrand the entire city might also make sense.
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:20 PM
 
29,968 posts, read 27,480,324 times
Reputation: 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I'm gonna go ahead and make an impossible case for my city.

Plaza tower is an empty 45 story skyscraper with 485,000 sq ft of space. It sits on a streetcar line, and Amtrak is across the street. That is the proposed terminus for the commuter train from Baton Rouge/MSY.

Our budget shortfall comes specifically from tax breaks so we like giving big companies our tax dollars.

There's no abundance of skilled workers but it wouldn't be hard to get young people to live in New Orleans, they love it. I love it. There's about 6-7 four year universities an hour away. The two best would be Tulane and LSU.

Where building a new airport already and I think we have direct flights to all those cities already. If not, they'd be added. Bike lanes and pedestrian access is one of the easiest parts, there's no shortage of them here.

There's lots of red tape here but Amazon isn't some fancy beer garden who wants to open in a residential neighborhood.
Cultural fit may be odd, I think we'd have to get used to something like this but I also think it people wouldn't have a problem living in the city.

There's not many recreational opportunities like in Seattle but our recreation is in the city. Also pretty affordable.

But it'll never happen.
NOLA needs a nice economic shot in the arm, but I think something like this would drastically alter (some might say ruin) the culture of the city, which is why people like NOLA to begin with. Now a nice tech eco devo project with 5K jobs? Sure. 50K jobs? Ummm....
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:46 PM
 
767 posts, read 2,272,118 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Sorry if it came off that way, but that's not what I was complaining about (traffic, home values, etc.), but was saying that adding the "strain" of 50K high-paying jobs in such a short period of time -- jobs that may not have otherwise been there, and are cumulative to whatever would have occurred naturally -- may be straining on the city. But my biggest gripe with Amazon (besides the fact that I don't like the company or its business model, but I don't want that to muddy the waters of this piece of the conversation) is that I don't like the idea of heavily subsidizing those jobs/development if those jobs/development could occur organically without subsidy. In other words, I'm not saying that those 50K jobs would show up either way, but that the city who "wins" this fight is going to be compromising other things with those taxes/future revenue foregone by reeling in this windfall all at once, instead of organically over time (i.e. natural ebb/flow). Any time you force your hand into something there's usually a rebound effect. For example, I don't want to see the city's police/fire forces dwindle for the next couple of decades because the taxes aren't there to support the current needs. Same with schools (especially schools), healthcare, etc.

If the argument is that the region would have higher tax revenues proportional to the amount of GDP generated or populace, then if that can be demonstrated, I'd support a subsidy to garner that scenario. I don't see that happening.

P.S. to play on your gift horse expression, I'd take it a step further and offer to always look a gift horse in the jock (be future focused).
It's a fair question as to whether those jobs would have come organically.

That being said, history says that talent clusters together. The irony of the Internet age, where many people can work anywhere that they want as long as they have an Internet connection, is that it actually *accelerated* talent clustering. I remember in the 1990s where a supposed benefit of the Internet was that someone from Buffalo would no longer have to move to New York City for work, but what ended up happening was that the ability to work from anywhere made living in New York City and its peers even *more* desirable (e.g. top talent would say that there's NFW they're living Buffalo).

So, to your point, as long as Amazon is a growing company, then the number of employees that it has is going to grow organically. However, the Internet age has proven that this does NOT mean that a company like Amazon would ever locate the jobs in a town outside of the handful of superstar tech centers organically. The job growth might be organic, but the job *location* is not necessarily organic in today's reality.

At the same time, you have to look at the cost of *not* acting. For example, people noted above that Chicago may want to use its old Main Post Office building as an Amazon site. It has been sitting completely empty for two decades, which also means that it has been generating absolutely no money for the city for the past two decades (and frankly costing the city money to secure it and chase off squatters). Essentially, Chicago is probably better off giving it away for free to Amazon than to continue to let that huge piece of property directly in downtown to continue to go unused. Other cities in contention almost certainly have their own pieces of property that have similar attributes.

Thus, I don't see it as a zero sum game where tax revenues are being taken from police forces, fire departments and schools. Instead, I see it where there are large-scale properties that are currently providing *zero* tax revenue to the city and when you find one of those very small handful of entities that can actually reasonably take over that type of space, you've got to fight for them because the income taxes from those employees alone would mean much more than the incentives regarding the property itself.
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:54 PM
 
9,841 posts, read 11,460,031 times
Reputation: 2365
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
Absolutely. And that is why I predicted DC or environs for the 2nd HQ way back in this thread. He friggin' owns The Washington Post!
I think D.C. is preparing to throw the bank at Amazon to land them in the city. The buildings are ready for them to move in right now:

Here is a breakdown of the sites for the first 6,771,538 million sq. feet of the campus either under construction or ready to break ground waiting on tenants. Phase I, II, and IV are all within a 5 block radius. Phase III is within 10 blocks.

Phase I = Capitol Crossing (2,140,671 sq. ft.)
Capitol Crossing

200 Mass - 414,170 sq. ft. (Delivering 2018)
250 Mass - 563,376 sq. ft. (Delivering 2019)
200 F - 685,430 sq. ft. (In Development)
600 2nd - 180,384 sq. ft. (In Development)
201 F - 297,311 sq. ft. (In Development)


Phase II - Within 5 Blocks (2,130,867 sq. ft.)
http://www.nomabid.org/wp-content/up...9.2017-Map.pdf
http://www.mvtcid.org/maps/development-map

801 New Jersey Ave NW - 400,000 sq. ft. (In Development)
300 K St. NW - 233,079 sq. ft. (In Development)
950 3rd St. NW - 117,788 sq. ft. (In Development)
55 H St. NE - 265,000 Sq. ft. (In Development)
900 New York Ave. - 620,000 sq. ft (In Development)
1001 6th St. - 495,000 sq. ft (In Development)


Phase III = O Street Development (1,000,000 sq. ft.)
http://www.nomabid.org/wp-content/up...9.2017-Map.pdf


Phase IV = Within 5 Blocks (Burnham Place) (1,500,000 sq. feet)
http://www.nomabid.org/wp-content/up...9.2017-Map.pdf
[vimeo]147765005[/vimeo]
https://vimeo.com/147765005


Transportation Network

Within Walking Distance:
  • NOMA Metro Station
  • Union Station Metro Station
  • Judiciary Square Metro Station
  • Gallery Place Metro Station
  • Metro Center Metro Station
  • Mt. Vernon Triangle Metro Station
  • 25 Capital Bikeshare Stations
  • Too Many Bus Lines to List
  • Street car
  • 2 VRE Commuter Rail Lines
  • 3 Marc Commuter Rail Lines
  • 2nd Busiest Amtrak Station in America

Last edited by MDAllstar; 09-08-2017 at 02:16 PM..
 
Old 09-08-2017, 01:55 PM
 
Location: East Tennessee and Atlanta
3,703 posts, read 8,794,168 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
I'm not sure why Denver wouldn't be on their radar. Denver makes a whole lot more sense with their attractiveness to educated Millennials and massive airport compared to places like Nashville and Indianapolis to me. Plus, Denver is a pretty good cultural fit for an organization like Amazon. The only real knock that I see on Denver is if they want to avoid another Western presence (it's not on the West Coast, but it's still fairly far from the East).
I think it's too "far west" for them to consider, and other cities are going to be the ones in the mix, but like you mentioned, Amazon probably already has 1-2 cities strongly in mind, and most of this is just going through the "proper motions," just like a job that an employer has to post, but has someone selected before that...could be the case with Amazon as well.
 
Old 09-08-2017, 02:06 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,576,544 times
Reputation: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank the tank View Post
it's a fair question as to whether those jobs would have come organically.

That being said, history says that talent clusters together. The irony of the internet age, where many people can work anywhere that they want as long as they have an internet connection, is that it actually *accelerated* talent clustering. I remember in the 1990s where a supposed benefit of the internet was that someone from buffalo would no longer have to move to new york city for work, but what ended up happening was that the ability to work from anywhere made living in new york city and its peers even *more* desirable (e.g. Top talent would say that there's nfw they're living buffalo).

So, to your point, as long as amazon is a growing company, then the number of employees that it has is going to grow organically. However, the internet age has proven that this does not mean that a company like amazon would ever locate the jobs in a town outside of the handful of superstar tech centers organically. The job growth might be organic, but the job *location* is not necessarily organic in today's reality.

At the same time, you have to look at the cost of *not* acting. For example, people noted above that chicago may want to use its old main post office building as an amazon site. It has been sitting completely empty for two decades, which also means that it has been generating absolutely no money for the city for the past two decades (and frankly costing the city money to secure it and chase off squatters). Essentially, chicago is probably better off giving it away for free to amazon than to continue to let that huge piece of property directly in downtown to continue to go unused. Other cities in contention almost certainly have their own pieces of property that have similar attributes.

Thus, i don't see it as a zero sum game where tax revenues are being taken from police forces, fire departments and schools. Instead, i see it where there are large-scale properties that are currently providing *zero* tax revenue to the city and when you find one of those very small handful of entities that can actually reasonably take over that type of space, you've got to fight for them because the income taxes from those employees alone would mean much more than the incentives regarding the property itself.
dp
 
Old 09-08-2017, 02:08 PM
 
1,303 posts, read 1,576,544 times
Reputation: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
It's a fair question as to whether those jobs would have come organically.

That being said, history says that talent clusters together. The irony of the Internet age, where many people can work anywhere that they want as long as they have an Internet connection, is that it actually *accelerated* talent clustering. I remember in the 1990s where a supposed benefit of the Internet was that someone from Buffalo would no longer have to move to New York City for work, but what ended up happening was that the ability to work from anywhere made living in New York City and its peers even *more* desirable (e.g. top talent would say that there's NFW they're living Buffalo).

So, to your point, as long as Amazon is a growing company, then the number of employees that it has is going to grow organically. However, the Internet age has proven that this does NOT mean that a company like Amazon would ever locate the jobs in a town outside of the handful of superstar tech centers organically. The job growth might be organic, but the job *location* is not necessarily organic in today's reality.

At the same time, you have to look at the cost of *not* acting. For example, people noted above that Chicago may want to use its old Main Post Office building as an Amazon site. It has been sitting completely empty for two decades, which also means that it has been generating absolutely no money for the city for the past two decades (and frankly costing the city money to secure it and chase off squatters). Essentially, Chicago is probably better off giving it away for free to Amazon than to continue to let that huge piece of property directly in downtown to continue to go unused. Other cities in contention almost certainly have their own pieces of property that have similar attributes.

Thus, I don't see it as a zero sum game where tax revenues are being taken from police forces, fire departments and schools. Instead, I see it where there are large-scale properties that are currently providing *zero* tax revenue to the city and when you find one of those very small handful of entities that can actually reasonably take over that type of space, you've got to fight for them because the income taxes from those employees alone would mean much more than the incentives regarding the property itself.
To clarify your post about the old post office in Chicago; it is privately owned. I'm not sure how the city could "give it away for free" to Amazon.

Also redevelopment is already underway; the massive project will happen regardless of Amazon.
Though I'd wager Amazon has already decided where they will add their 2nd HQ; and I'd also wager that city is Chicago.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top