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View Poll Results: Where?
New York City 16 3.10%
Greater Boston 32 6.20%
Philly 38 7.36%
DC/N. Virginia 50 9.69%
Raleigh/NC Research Triangle 32 6.20%
Austin 48 9.30%
San Francisco/Bay Area/Silicon Valley 13 2.52%
Baltimore 11 2.13%
Toronto 33 6.40%
Pittsburgh 35 6.78%
Chicago 99 19.19%
Atlanta 109 21.12%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-12-2017, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,950,289 times
Reputation: 3574

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Adding flights is much easier than trying to come up with available land for a city that might not have such land.

Adding flights is much easier than making up for lack of a top tech university which Pittsburgh has in CMU, not to mention Pitt.

Who know what they will do, but the winning city will have built in demand for Seattle flights.
This is not necessarily correct. Remember, Amazon HQ2 won't be 50,000 employees from the get-go. It will take 15-17 years to MAYBE get to that point.

Phase 1 will be 500,000 square feet of space, and maybe 2,000-3,000 employees. This won't NEARLY be enough to create demand for a flight to Seattle. Any city chosen will have to have direct, daily Seattle flights already in place. It would take years to get a flight added banking on Amazon demand alone.

Pittsburgh not having any flights to Seattle now is a huge knock against it. Cities and companies don't add flights... airlines do if it makes financial sense. If Pittsburgh doesn't have the demand now, why will it in one year? Why will 2,000-3,000 Amazon employees based in Pittsburgh suddenly create that demand?

Yes, Pittsburgh has two or three good schools, but Philadelphia, DC, NYC, Dallas, Boston, Atlanta, etc. have countless good schools.

 
Old 09-12-2017, 10:55 AM
 
5,102 posts, read 5,986,235 times
Reputation: 3116
Quote:
This won't NEARLY be enough to create demand for a flight to Seattle. Any city chosen will have to have direct, daily Seattle flights already in place. It would take years to get a flight added banking on Amazon demand alone.

That is true, but is mistake to think that there are not direct flights due to lack of demand when in most cases, it's a result of airline consolidation and revised hub routes.

Quote:
Pittsburgh not having any flights to Seattle now is a huge knock against it.
We'll have to disagree.

Quote:
Cities and companies don't add flights... airlines do if it makes financial sense.
Again, it's more complicated than that.

It's certainly not an advantage, but it's much easier to overcome it than the other items.
Many cities who will bid won't have the universities Pittsburgh has, including every other northeastern city not name Boston.

However, they will based their decision on many criteria and of course the incentives.
How the criteria is weighted, we don't know.

I'm certainly not saying that Pittsburgh or any one city has a distinct advantage, just pointing out that the air flight aspect is being over blown on forums, especially compared to more rigid criteria that can't be easily solved for, for cities that might be lacking in the criteria...
 
Old 09-12-2017, 11:15 AM
 
2,517 posts, read 2,281,601 times
Reputation: 1855
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
Sooo, if they're outgrowing Seattle, why would they pick a smaller city? Seattle ranks #15 in metro areas, so that means the only cities that could logically compete would be everything larger than Seattle.

I think they're growing fast, and Seattle is too expensive for them to keep expanding in, both from an office space standpoint, and a reasonable salary/reasonable cost of living for employees.

Cost of living was an important factor in their requirement for HQ2 as well, and I believe expensive cities will be eliminated.
No one said it would be a smaller city. I assume they will probably go with a city that is at least the same size. I've heard they are outgrowing Seattle in terms of hiring ability from the local pool and land constraints.. so it makes sense to create this HQ2. Cost of living is important but I doubt someone in Role A in HQ2 would be making less then someone with Role A in Seattle thus cost of living being similar to Seattle not being a problem. I think people are underplaying the culture/lifestyle fit of the city to Amazon as a company. They are a very "liberal" work culture & mindset.... I doubt they want to be in some suburb or city surrounded by a conservative culture/policies..

Last edited by Ebck120; 09-12-2017 at 11:25 AM..
 
Old 09-12-2017, 11:46 AM
 
1,235 posts, read 1,307,917 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post

I think, with the requests/preferences/requirements from the RFP, the top 5 finalists are:

Atlanta
Chicago
Dallas
Denver
Philadelphia

Top Canadian choices would be Toronto and Montreal, but I don't see Amazon picking an HQ2 site outside of the US.
If you are actually going off the RFP, then Minneapolis would be about neck and neck with Denver, and probably ahead of Atlanta and Dallas.
 
Old 09-12-2017, 11:57 AM
 
7,744 posts, read 4,590,691 times
Reputation: 8455
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
This is not necessarily correct. Remember, Amazon HQ2 won't be 50,000 employees from the get-go. It will take 15-17 years to MAYBE get to that point.

Phase 1 will be 500,000 square feet of space, and maybe 2,000-3,000 employees. This won't NEARLY be enough to create demand for a flight to Seattle. Any city chosen will have to have direct, daily Seattle flights already in place. It would take years to get a flight added banking on Amazon demand alone.

Pittsburgh not having any flights to Seattle now is a huge knock against it. Cities and companies don't add flights... airlines do if it makes financial sense. If Pittsburgh doesn't have the demand now, why will it in one year? Why will 2,000-3,000 Amazon employees based in Pittsburgh suddenly create that demand?

Yes, Pittsburgh has two or three good schools, but Philadelphia, DC, NYC, Dallas, Boston, Atlanta, etc. have countless good schools.
Tell me about these great Dallas universities.

I think you really underselling Pittsburgh's mass transit and airport. Granite Pittsburgh does not have direct flights to Seattle, but the airport is a former hub, and as such, is easily scalable without any new investment. Pittsburgh also has a much better mass transit then some of the cities you've listed above it. People have real bias in overage the mass transit in cities that have miles and miles of light rail to the suburbs, but terrible last-mile transit. Pittsburgh's transit system is bus/BRT but is very well connected, and the city has a higher ridership rate. It's not great mass transit if the majority of people have to drive to the train, and your buses suck.
 
Old 09-12-2017, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in the lower 48.
285 posts, read 238,720 times
Reputation: 1021
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightonWalnut View Post
Yes, they're all for sure weak airports... just not as familiar as the others as I am with Pittsburgh and Nashville. All of these cities could be disqualified for their airports.
My fault, you did say that Pittsburgh's airport was a weakness.

But in Nashville's defense, all Amazon said was it wants direct flights to Seattle, San Francisco, New York, and Washington. Nashville already has all that:

Seattle (Alaska Airlines and Delta Air Lines)
New York (JFK - American Airlines, Delta Air Lines; LGA - American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Southwest Airlines; EWR - United Airlines)
San Francisco (SFO - United Airlines, Virgin America Airlines; OAK - Southwest Airlines)
Washington (DCA - American Airlines, Southwest Airlines; IAD - United Airlines; BWI - Southwest Airlines)

While I agree that Nashville probably doesn't have a shot at this, it's not because it has a "weak" airport.
 
Old 09-12-2017, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,276 posts, read 1,326,585 times
Reputation: 2114
Chicago or Philly would be best off this list..Philly is on more of an upward trajectory but is so dandwiched in between DC/Bmore and NYC.... but I honestly think Detroit would be ideal because it could be AmazonTown it has that much of an economic void. Cheap and young people would be willing to live in downtown Detroit it would be new and excitign and has already been rebounding since 2010. By 2025 it would show vast improvement since the late 2000s

Providence would be good to.

DC is the easy choice.
 
Old 09-12-2017, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,276 posts, read 1,326,585 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justabystander View Post
Yes, I agree that Chicago does have a tax issue, and Atlanta is educated. Chicago has many colleges ( if you mentioned small colleges in Atlanta, then Chicago, in addition to heavy hitters Northwestern, U of Chicago, University of Illinois and University of Wisconsin, has DePaul ( largest Catholic university in America ) University of Illinois Chicago, Illinois Institute of Technology, Loyola, Roosevelt, Columbia, and if you are reaching for U of Florida, then U of Mich, Notre Dame, etc.. It has the el and suburban rail, it, and even though large, has locations within downtown near to this transportation to handle such a campus that are close to this rail transportation. Boston and NYC do not.

Why not Boston or NYC? The COL for the workers and talent should be reasonable, and housing costs in these areas are definitely not, as well as land costs. Chicago, despite the tax problem, has been ranked number one in corporate expansion for the last four years, and has a booming healthy downtown, in spite of Springfield. The location ( east central ) has easier access to the east and south, while maintaining a close proximity to the central states.

It seems that social issues are important to Jeff Bezos, and Chicago, as a sanctuary city leader and liberal leaning like Seattle, would have the edge there on anything in the south, even Atlanta. Chicago already has a fairly large Amazon presence. I am not saying that Chicago would have a lock on this by any means, but it really does have alot of advantages alot of other places don't have in this race. Good luck to them all.
Cost of doing business and Land in Boston is too high, they want to make a profit -yea they can afford it but the money for people doesn't go far there, and the cost of dealing with unions and corruption in Boston also does not help. NYC is too expensive period, its just not necessary for Amazon to do that.
 
Old 09-12-2017, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,876 posts, read 3,002,451 times
Reputation: 3409
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
Tell me about these great Dallas universities.

I think you really underselling Pittsburgh's mass transit and airport. Granite Pittsburgh does not have direct flights to Seattle, but the airport is a former hub, and as such, is easily scalable without any new investment. Pittsburgh also has a much better mass transit then some of the cities you've listed above it. People have real bias in overage the mass transit in cities that have miles and miles of light rail to the suburbs, but terrible last-mile transit. Pittsburgh's transit system is bus/BRT but is very well connected, and the city has a higher ridership rate. It's not great mass transit if the majority of people have to drive to the train, and your buses suck.
Agree. I think pittsburghs college lineup is just as impressive as Dallas's especially considering the size difference
 
Old 09-12-2017, 01:50 PM
 
7,744 posts, read 4,590,691 times
Reputation: 8455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylord_Focker View Post
Agree. I think pittsburghs college lineup is just as impressive as Dallas's especially considering the size difference
I don't want to make this a Pittsburgh versus DFW pissing contest. I think it's fair to say that Dallas outscores to Pittsburgh on several metrics, but Dallas misses two of Amazin's stated criteria (universities and transit) whereas Pittsburgh only misses one (airport). Blah blah blah Dallas has miles of light rail. It's still completely car dependent because they have terrible last mile transit.
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