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View Poll Results: Where?
New York City 16 3.10%
Greater Boston 32 6.20%
Philly 38 7.36%
DC/N. Virginia 50 9.69%
Raleigh/NC Research Triangle 32 6.20%
Austin 48 9.30%
San Francisco/Bay Area/Silicon Valley 13 2.52%
Baltimore 11 2.13%
Toronto 33 6.40%
Pittsburgh 35 6.78%
Chicago 99 19.19%
Atlanta 109 21.12%
Voters: 516. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-27-2017, 01:54 PM
 
7,697 posts, read 4,554,568 times
Reputation: 8371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Seriously, though, I doubt most are happy sharing an apartment into their 30's. Not saying some might not just love it, but it's hard to believe that many do.
I know people who do it, and they’re happy. They could afford to live on their own, but not in their neighborhood of choice, and they’d rather have their neighborhood of choice.

 
Old 09-27-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,849 posts, read 7,795,643 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The real estate is the issue, not the payroll.
I know you think that. I don’t agree.

So that’s where we are.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Miami-Jax
6,312 posts, read 6,962,789 times
Reputation: 3502
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Salaries are definitely going to be a large concern. Even if Amazon only had half of their top estimate of 50,000 employees in NYC, if they had to pay an avg of 30K extra per employee-- it would be $750 million each year they'd be losing.
Good point, and actually it would be more after you account for payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, etc. Eg I used estimates and an employer calculator to compare $100k salary in NY vs $70k salary in FL, and it's probably a difference of around $34k per employee for a company of Amazon's size. In other words, another $100M per year for a total of $850M per year in your scenario. Obviously we have no idea what the real comparisons will be ultimately, but it's hard to say this doesn't matter at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PghYinzer View Post
I have no idea how immigration or work visas work in Canada, but how easy would it be for people to transfer from Seattle to Toronto? I know there will be plenty of Canadian hires in the new office, but there will also be plenty of people shuffling around from other US locations to the new HQ2. Wouldn't it save a lot of effort to just make it in the US, so that isn't even a concern?
Not easy. The valid point that some people make is that the hiring of foreign talent (not from either US or Canada) is easier to do in Canada. The competition for these visas in the US is costly, difficult, and limited. I mentioned that the Ottawa mayor claimed that Amazon has 9000 unfilled positions in the US, which would be presumably easy (-er) to fill in Canada. And Detroit, for another example, is collaborating with Windsor to try and make their bid include the best of both...allowing for HQ2 to be spread across both countries. And as crazy as that sounds, crossing the border in those border towns is not as big of a deal. If you are a US employee you can live on the US side and a Canadian employee could live in Canada but they wouldn't have much difficulty crossing the border to each other's offices anytime they want.

Is this a significant enough issue to make up for having HQ2 in a separate country? Perhaps not, but that is the basic discussion.
 
Old 09-27-2017, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Tampa - St. Louis
1,090 posts, read 1,626,102 times
Reputation: 1508
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
When one is talking about CoL , Toronto is not near as expensive as one might think.

Real estate is more expensive than most US cities but it's rentals are not. At $1750/month for a average one bedroom that is $500/month less than NYC, $400/month less than Wash, $300 less than Boston, $100 less than Pittsburgh, and only $75 more than Chicago.

This combined with far superior and free medical, excellent inner city public schools where VERY few send their kids to private, and much lower university/college tuitions, Toronto is cheaper than most comparably sized US cities. While gas, liquor, and sales taxes are higher, Hydro and municiple taxes are lower and Canadians enjoy many free or heavily subsidized medical/social/educational services.
There is no way in hell the average one-bedroom apartment in Pittsburgh is anywhere near $1750/month. Also, no way in hell Chicago is less expensive than Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is probably one of the most affordable major metros in the country. Toronto on the other hand is much more expensive to rent and buy than the vast majority of American metros (even large metros like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.)....not even close. When talking about American affordability, New York, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, Chicago, etc. are not the standard. They are insanely expensive by the standards of most Americans. Keep in mind that 2/3rds of the country lives in the South or Midwest despite the media markets being located on the coasts, most Americans do not live in super expensive markets.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 11:49 AM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 932,747 times
Reputation: 1119
I am simply going by the stats found n Wikipedia and sites that provide average one bedroom rentals for 50 major US cities. I too was surprised by Pittsburgh but remember these are "average" prices. Also note these are for one bedroom apartments and do NOT include individual rooms, room & board, and especially pertinent the renting of entire houses which I agree would probably be much cheaper and easier to find in Pittsburgh than in the more expensive markets.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:04 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by PghYinzer View Post
I have no idea how immigration or work visas work in Canada, but how easy would it be for people to transfer from Seattle to Toronto? I know there will be plenty of Canadian hires in the new office, but there will also be plenty of people shuffling around from other US locations to the new HQ2. Wouldn't it save a lot of effort to just make it in the US, so that isn't even a concern?
Average processing time for a work permit to Canada is anywhere between 2 to 8 weeks, max, with a ready job offer from an employer in Canada. https://www.canadaworkpermit.com/faq/apply.html

The biggest obstacles to U.S. work visa applications (H1-B) are:

- Extremely limited annual quota system (only a total of 85,000 visas are granted to ALL applicants per year vs. Canadian work visa process which does not have an annual quota)
- Random annual lottery system with a high probability of rejection for each employer's application (nearly 70% of H1B candidates are rejected every year by the random lottery, many of whom are perfectly qualified candidates with perfect applications and are graduates of U.S. institutions). Just imagine that Amazon decided to hire 100 high qualified foreign programmers with Ivy League diplomas, and 70 of those 100 candidates face near certainty of rejection by USCIS's lottery system even with impeccable pedigrees - absolute HR nightmare.
- Long processing time with only a 1-week application window every year (first week of April) as USCIS resources are already stretched to the limit

Talk to any international student studying in America, and you'll quickly realize that our legal immigration/work visa system has been an absolute mess for years, with no predictability for both employers and candidates and a high degree of bureaucracy, long wait times, randomness, inefficiency built into the USCIS review process.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:07 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 932,747 times
Reputation: 1119
As far as the earlier comment about moving to Canada being difficult, note that the article said it could be difficult if one does NOT have a guaranteed job which of course these people will. Bringing your family into Canada is automatic if you have a guaranteed job. Also this report was done BEFORE Trudeau changed the immigration rates as every year for the next 4 Canada will be increasing the number of immigrants by 25,000 per year and that will probably continue to rise.

As far as travelling between the 2 countries that is a piece of cake if one applies for the express service which simply requires a criminal record check which all these employees would have to get before they were hired by Amazon in the first place. You basically can ignore the immigration system entirely and just proceed to security which you would have to do in the US for any travelling within country as well.

For skilled Amazon employees and travel between the 2 countries going cross border is a non-issue.
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:14 PM
 
7,697 posts, read 4,554,568 times
Reputation: 8371
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
I am simply going by the stats found n Wikipedia and sites that provide average one bedroom rentals for 50 major US cities. I too was surprised by Pittsburgh but remember these are "average" prices. Also note these are for one bedroom apartments and do NOT include individual rooms, room & board, and especially pertinent the renting of entire houses which I agree would probably be much cheaper and easier to find in Pittsburgh than in the more expensive markets.
That number is absolutely ridiculous for Pittsburgh. New construction buildings are fairly expensive, but you can rent an older apartment in some of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city for under 1000. You can rent in less desirable (but safe) neighborhoods in the 500 range.

Desirable neighborhood:
https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ap...324352675.html

Less desirable neighborhood although safe and reasonably walkable:

https://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/ap...313886999.html
 
Old 09-28-2017, 12:16 PM
 
7,697 posts, read 4,554,568 times
Reputation: 8371
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooguy View Post
As far as the earlier comment about moving to Canada being difficult, note that the article said it could be difficult if one does NOT have a guaranteed job which of course these people will. Bringing your family into Canada is automatic if you have a guaranteed job. Also this report was done BEFORE Trudeau changed the immigration rates as every year for the next 4 Canada will be increasing the number of immigrants by 25,000 per year and that will probably continue to rise.

As far as travelling between the 2 countries that is a piece of cake if one applies for the express service which simply requires a criminal record check which all these employees would have to get before they were hired by Amazon in the first place. You basically can ignore the immigration system entirely and just proceed to security which you would have to do in the US for any travelling within country as well.

For skilled Amazon employees and travel between the 2 countries going cross border is a non-issue.
Applying for NEXUS is only easy for people who live in or near Canada. The process requires an in-person interview and the only US locations are near the Canadian border
 
Old 09-28-2017, 01:53 PM
 
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
9,422 posts, read 18,316,727 times
Reputation: 11902
Most Canadian airports also have US Customs stations on site making your arrival in a US city seamless. I cleared US customs in Halifax enroute to Boston, so much easier than clearing customs in Boston.
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