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It would be stupid for a city that meets absolutely none of the criteria to submit a bid, especially if it diverts resources and time away from working on economic development deals that said city actually has realistic chances of landing.
Agreed, that's a lot of time and money. Honestly idc where they go, it is interesting to watch as headquarter moves is something I find very interesting. What surprised me the most is that I did not know it mattered to so many people, especially governments that have sat on high-taxes and refused to be competitive for years. And people who think residential and population density is the end all, be all of urban life and matters more than office towers and jobs, blah blah blah
I would say that it depends wholly on the situation itself.
For a lot of cities that don't stand a chance at getting HQ2 either because they aren't a traditional tech market, loosely fit the RFP criteria (or don't fit at all), or have much bigger issues to deal with that this entire scheme for HQ2 has been a bust.
However, for certain cities, like Detroit, this has the potential to help their cause whether they get HQ2 or not. For Detroit, this is a prime opportunity (no pun intended) to showcase how far the city has come and all that it has to offer. The videos these cities are making aren't just viewed by Amazon but by viewers spread across the planet.
I saw the Detroit video yesterday, was pretty impressed with it and the city is really making a strong core-based resurgence with or without Amazon's HQ2:
Irregardless of HQ2, Detroit begins site preparation and construction for its new tallest building in downtown this December. The city's core has energized and its prosperity has started to spill over to adjacent neighborhoods like a seeping virus (in a good way) and the city is remaking its ascent. For Detroit, this HQ2 ordeal is a positive presser regardless of whether the city lands it or not.
For a lot of the other cities, I would not say the same thing. I remember Amazon releasing its HQ2 RFP on September 7th and the days following was a madhouse. Some city stated it wants to de-annex land and rename it Amazon and create its own city. Another place put up Amazon boxes all over town. Another place ordered 1,000 Amazon packages and wrote reason for why they deserve HQ2 on the reviews. Needless to say, a lot of these stunts have been a waste of resources and a waste of time, for some of these cities, they have piles of issues that they really should be working on cracking down on but instead their time and resources have gone into HQ2. The only problem with all of that is that 130 cities want it but only 1 will get it. That's 129 disappointments. The only places that actually lose but wont really lose are those that are trying to stage a comeback and generate positive press for themselves as a major city and business center IMO. So somewhere like a Detroit or a Pittsburgh, this application process will be good to both of them.
I think it is commendable that Little Rock, San Antonio, and San Jose all recognized that this is a zero-sum game and pulled out of it, as to no longer waste anymore time or resources on this thing.
I really liked this video of Detroit. You feel the energy of the underdog, the spirit of an innovator from the past who is trying to turn things around. I doubt Detroit has a chance since its renewal is still in the toddler stage, and past statements from Bezos desires a large city with a good mass transit system, something that Detroit lacks. It really doesn't say why it is a good fit, only highlighting what progress is being made. I agree this is good press for a comeback city though, and like I said, I enjoyed the video.
I must be missing something with Atlanta in the lead by a hair over Chicago. Stepping back, Chicago seems to have the most sites that fit the RFP to a tee, and the transit to support the hq2 that goes along with it. It is the corporate relocation leader for the past 4 years for a reason. I just don't see the same strengths with Atlanta. Moody's can rank all they want, there are certain intangibles such as political leanings, and stated location sites and access to transportation that were requested that don't seem to fit all that well. In the end, only Bezos knows. Perhaps it all just comes down to $$$ and that is all. Then Gov. Christy wins, and my faith in America drops just a little more. Sigh.
- A livable wage in Toronto is anywhere between $70,000 - $100,000, in CAD. That wage is more than adequate to qualify for a mortgage for a brand new 1-2 bedroom condo around downtown or midtown Toronto. Average rent for a 1-2 bedroom apartment is $1200-$1600 CAD in downtown Toronto, which (surprisingly) is lower than other comparable major cities such as Boston, NYC, DC, SF, etc.
- Not sure why cost of living has to be based on the prices of SFHs. Toronto has long prohibited construction of net new SFH in the city limits. There are no new SFHs for you to buy - only existing stock and they are quickly shrinking and being converted to townhouses or condos. 80% home buyers in Toronto city-proper are buyers of rowhouses, townhouses, stacked townhouses, or condos. I don't see this as a negative especially given that Amazon has a primarily millenial workforce who are more drawn to urban living and not suburban SFH communities.
- Personal income tax rates in Canada are comparable to the U.S. A person making $80,000 to $120,000 CAD a year will pay an effective tax rate of 20-25%: provincial and federal combined. The top federal income tax rate for the highest earners in America is 35%; it is 29% in Canada. The myth that "America has low income taxes" is just that - a myth. Keeping in mind that there are no Social Security deductions in Canada, no health insurance deductions (all government funded), and no prescription pharma cost in Ontario (starting in 2018 Ontario will cover 100% of prescription drug costs for all Ontario residents).
- Most U.S. tech companies like Google, FB, Oracle, Workday are already paying above-market rates for their Toronto-based workforce. Average base salary of $100,000 plus $20-40k bonus/stock option is very very common in the tech sector here. Amazon will very likely pay comparable salary rates based on your individual pay grade should they located to Toronto.
With that said, I don't think Amazon will relocate to Toronto because its largest market is still the U.S. I don't agree with a previous poster saying that it is a "very impressive" bid - Toronto submitted a respectable bid with pages of in-depth research and supporting data, but I don't think it will get the bid due to it being in another country.
I'm sorry, I don't buy it regarding COL. Unless you are saying all these Toronto natives are wrong:
Software engineer looking to move to Toronto from the Bay Area and everyone is asking why wouldn't you just stay in the US?
And I mentioned SFHS because for better or for worse that is the standard many Americans are accustomed to.
Also I only mentioned population WRT talent pool. Any US city can theoretically pull talent from a population 10x that of Canada. Canada would have to rely much more heavily on immigration I imagine than the US.
I must be missing something with Atlanta in the lead by a hair over Chicago. Stepping back, Chicago seems to have the most sites that fit the RFP to a tee, and the transit to support the hq2 that goes along with it. It is the corporate relocation leader for the past 4 years for a reason. I just don't see the same strengths with Atlanta.
As much as I love Chicago, it's beyond foolish to dismiss Atlanta - even though a lot of us have very mixed feelings about landing HQ2.
Atlanta's GDP growth over the past year is only 2nd to the Bay Area amongst the largest Metro's, and corporate relocations & expansions have become routine. The large majority are settling in the core of the City as well, especially in Midtown.
Atlanta landed the Olympics 21 years ago, that pretty much says it all.
I think it should be Albuquerque, Jeff Bezos is from Albuquerque and they could use
the boost to their economy. New Mexico is great place to live.
If not located in USA then I think Toronto is a strong contender, it checks off all the boxes,
it is already a huge distribution hub, has good schools, available talent, major large airport,
with many international flights, Canada, unlike USA has no problem welcoming potential
workers from around the world, Toronto is already an international city, over half foreign born.
I must be missing something with Atlanta in the lead by a hair over Chicago. Stepping back, Chicago seems to have the most sites that fit the RFP to a tee, and the transit to support the hq2 that goes along with it. It is the corporate relocation leader for the past 4 years for a reason. I just don't see the same strengths with Atlanta. Moody's can rank all they want, there are certain intangibles such as political leanings, and stated location sites and access to transportation that were requested that don't seem to fit all that well. In the end, only Bezos knows. Perhaps it all just comes down to $$$ and that is all. Then Gov. Christy wins, and my faith in America drops just a little more. Sigh.
I don't have Atlanta as my frontrunner but I think it has a reasonably high chance in this competition nonetheless. I have it well placed in my top ten choices but I think this thing will ultimately end up in Boston, that's my frontrunner with Chicago a close second. The other places that I am giving strong consideration to outside of Boston and Chicago are Toronto, New York, Dallas, Austin, Atlanta, Washington D.C., Denver, and the San Francisco Bay Area all in no particular order and when I mention these cities by name I am really referring to the cities and their surrounding metropolitan regions at-large. I have since contemplated eliminating Denver but will give it a few more updates before I remove it (primarily because of their low incentive offer).
Here is a compilation of all the publicly stated tax incentives so far in ascending order:
What I think will help Boston seal this deal is the fact that the city isn't fiscally strained, meaning they can afford to pitch a large incentive number to Amazon without feeling strained in anyway, shape, or form. At least not compared to some of the other places that have assumed large public debt or dropped in credit rating to where acquiring those loans and grants may be more difficult. Boston has a great credit rating and its fiscal portfolio is pretty sound for a big city of its size, so getting loans, grants, and funds wont be a hard process for them. That's the singular reason why I've been adamant with the idea of Boston being my frontrunner in this HQ2 ordeal. They just make way too much fiscal sense honestly, now they have to back that with a large incentive offer of their own because if they don't then their bidding process will be put on thin ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justabystander
I really liked this video of Detroit. You feel the energy of the underdog, the spirit of an innovator from the past who is trying to turn things around. I doubt Detroit has a chance since its renewal is still in the toddler stage, and past statements from Bezos desires a large city with a good mass transit system, something that Detroit lacks. It really doesn't say why it is a good fit, only highlighting what progress is being made. I agree this is good press for a comeback city though, and like I said, I enjoyed the video.
My favorite bid video that I've seen so far is from Calgary. Actually, Calgary's entire bid process has been humorous and excellent so far. I give it an A++ for sure.
Calgary went even beyond the video, they put up a banner across the street from Amazon's campus (one segment of it at least) in Seattle with this message (the same message from the video):
Someone with inside info is apparently claiming that Austin has pretty much already been chosen and Amazon is simply waiting for a better offer from Texas before they make it official.
Someone with inside info is apparently claiming that Austin has pretty much already been chosen and Amazon is simply waiting for a better offer from Texas before they make it official.
This is just rumors but my best friend who works for Amazon said that Austin was the original choice but that certain VIPs on the "East Coast" raised concerns about whether enough people would actually want to move there. I know I wouldn't move there from Seattle.
At any rate, it seems like Amazon doesn't feel that it can fulfill the requisite talent locally in Austin.
This is just rumors but my best friend who works for Amazon said that Austin was the original choice but that certain VIPs on the "East Coast" raised concerns about whether enough people would actually want to move there. I know I wouldn't move there from Seattle.
At any rate, it seems like Amazon doesn't feel that it can fulfill the requisite talent locally in Austin.
"Want" is a very interesting word choice. Considering the most desirable cities in the eastern half of the country are NYC, Boston, DC, and Chicago, could one of those win based on "desire"?
And do you think they're moving people from Seattle to the new location? I was under the assumption these are completely new jobs so they'll be getting talent from around the country. Austin has some flair among young Techies round the country...it has that buzz.
I wonder if Austin was the choice, but then they raised those concerns and decided to announce the HQ2 and make it a battle royale?
Still after hearing this, you gotta put Austin has the favorite. I'm still concerned about the infrastructure of the city though...can it really handle 50k jobs from Amazon alone(this doesn't include tens of thousands of new jobs that will be created indirectly as a result of the inflow of workers and money).
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