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Old 09-24-2017, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,365 posts, read 24,104,739 times
Reputation: 8869

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1957?? Really? Before my time. Post WW2 German American Vets (all videos stated churches were built and not synagogues)

Then:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHmZcVFh-qQ

Now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nynfGo6yg-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paPnmc4eRPg

Dated, but still mostly white (98%)
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:27 PM
 
11,172 posts, read 22,375,148 times
Reputation: 10924
I don't think a lot of it was white flight to get away from black people, although that was a strong secondary, as much as it was starting in the 1950's you had vast tracts of area opened up to development with the new interstate highways, a booming economy and millions of people returning from war ready to start families all at once.

It was a white flight because mostly it was the white population that had the financial means to pick up and go to new large houses with their own backyards on new streets with new schools and new stores.

By the 1950's it had been 25+ years since the USA entered the crash in 1929 and from then straight through WWII and to the late 1940's there was very little investment in housing in cities and reduced maintenance because no one could afford it or the war took priority.

By the 1950's people were starting new families by the millions, the cities were in physically rough shape and everyone who could was more than excited to run out to the fresh new suburbs.

The timing of this coincided with a huge number of black people leaving the south to northern cities for jobs. Those two factors put together and you had the racism at seeing black people moving into the cities and into your neighborhoods and also the huge draw of the suburbs right there waiting.

It was economic flight which due to the circumstances was also white flight.
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,060 posts, read 13,591,379 times
Reputation: 22129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago60614 View Post
I don't think a lot of it was white flight to get away from black people, although that was a strong secondary, as much as it was starting in the 1950's you had vast tracts of area opened up to development with the new interstate highways, a booming economy and millions of people returning from war ready to start families all at once.

It was a white flight because mostly it was the white population that had the financial means to pick up and go to new large houses with their own backyards on new streets with new schools and new stores.

By the 1950's it had been 25+ years since the USA entered the crash in 1929 and from then straight through WWII and to the late 1940's there was very little investment in housing in cities and reduced maintenance because no one could afford it or the war took priority.

By the 1950's people were starting new families by the millions, the cities were in physically rough shape and everyone who could was more than excited to run out to the fresh new suburbs.

The timing of this coincided with a huge number of black people leaving the south to northern cities for jobs. Those two factors put together and you had the racism at seeing black people moving into the cities and into your neighborhoods and also the huge draw of the suburbs right there waiting.

It was economic flight which due to the circumstances was also white flight.
I don't think most whites moved to avoid living near black people, it's more complex than that. Banks were notorious for redlining any areas where blacks lived which made it hard to get a loan and consequently resulted in a drop in property value. Unscrupulous realtors took advantage of it, making sure that everyone in the vicinity of a house owned by blacks knew that the area would likely be redlined which resulted in panic selling.
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:55 PM
 
Location: 352
5,122 posts, read 3,884,064 times
Reputation: 3491
Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
There is a common narrative that the decline of cities came about because white people left the cities to self segregate from black people. However, in some cases this doesn't make much sense.
Providence, RI was 3% black when it started losing population, by 1970, Providence was 8% Black. That was the point 70,000 people had left a city with marginal Black population. Even today Providence is about 15% black. Minneapolis was similar after losing 100,000, its black population was at 4.4% in 1970.

Now I know that places like Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Buffalo, lost much more of their populations and had a higher black population, but for the most part those metros suffered worse as well, so many of those people left the region as a whole. But their cities, particularly Detroit suffered worse proportionally to their metro than any other, and heavily white Pittsburgh did the best in city proper vs metro population loss within the Rust belt and that's not a coincidence.

I understand there was redlining and thing that stopped black people from moving into the suburbs, but I'm not so sure individual racism was the prime contributor to suburbanization like some urban activists claim, because cities that were as white as the suburbs people were moving too still lost 30% or so of their population.
Racism, politics, taxes, desire for more land, desire for less noise, desire to drive a car on the new shiny freeways, desire for less crime, desire for a bigger house, desire to be closer to lakes, ocean, etc. Many factors played a role, but regardless of what Providence is doing, I think it's obvious racism was in there for many examples. White flight wasn't a vacuum movement, it affected each city differently.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:32 AM
 
571 posts, read 390,855 times
Reputation: 1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That is exactly what happened in Richmond, California, but it started in the early 50's. Realtors formed a group and held meetings to agree which neighborhoods they would "keep white," blacks were never shown houses in those neighborhoods.

We're dealing with a situation like this today in Kansas City, MO.

One of the largest real estate developers in Kansas City who created suburbia in the mid-1900's was a man named J.C. Nichols. Nichols was racists. The mortgages to the new homes came with a "covenant." The white owners of the new homes agreed to never sell to blacks, Jews, Catholics or any other non-WASP minority groups. (Talk about "Make America White Again." )

There is a movement underway now to remove JC Nichols' name from monuments around the city.

Steve Kraske: Kansas City should confront racist past and rename J.C. Nichols fountain | The Kansas City Star
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,142 posts, read 23,662,647 times
Reputation: 11622
Some white people moved partially because they wanted to avoid black people, but it's unlikely this was the primary reason for most people as black people were a fairly small part of the US population overall and suburbanization took place in vast tracts of places that had very small numbers of black people or ethnic minorities in general.

The much bigger drives were government incentivized real estate development through home loans and the highway system as well as the general pollution of industrial cities. The first one is fairly well known, but the second is a bit more subtle however in contemporary for the time marketing for suburban homes often stressed how dirty the city was and how clean the suburbs were. This was in fact true. The air quality of US cities with their massive industrial factories and old buildings that sometimes burned coal for heating was abysmal and the placement of highways and employment centers with people from the suburbs driving in on vehicles that had very little emissions regulations as well as leaded gasoline was often horrendously unhealthful.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:02 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,235 posts, read 476,680 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by missionhill View Post
Push and pull. Reaction to black people and to poor people. Reaction to noise, crime, other environmental factors. Worry about property values and rising taxes. Attraction of new houses, new schools, higher status opportunities. Government backed roads made suburbs possible and attractive to the mass of people. Government backed discrimination made mortgage loans unavailable in older city neighborhoods and available only to whites in the new suburbs of the 1940s 50s and 60s. Lots of factors.
Good observations and I agree fully.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,235 posts, read 476,680 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
My impression is that, broadly speaking, suburbanization from 1945 to the early 1960s not mainly driven by white flight, but by urban overcrowding, pollution, and other factors. Black people were practically speaking excluded from moving to the suburbs even if they had enough money to do so by redlining and other racist policies, but white people were moving to the suburbs mainly because the suburbs were seen as being great, not because the city was seen as being terrible.

This changed once the urban riots era started in around 1964. Then there really was "rush to the exits" in virtually every core city in the country, which continued at a high pace for a full generation.
That's right.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:44 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
6,570 posts, read 3,664,491 times
Reputation: 12357
The returning soldiers needed homes for their growing families and cheap land was in the suburbs where developers could bulldoze 40 acres and crank out houses. We lived in one of my grandma's bedrooms- family of four. We moved into a brand new house in the suburbs in '53 at a cost of $11,000. Minority soldiers wanted the same thing but were limited in where they could live so mostly stayed in the cities... not suburbs. That motivated whites to move from the old neighborhoods and developers were gleefully cranking out suburban neighborhoods. It snowballed.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:10 PM
 
2,091 posts, read 765,737 times
Reputation: 2242
Here's what I don't get how can white people be called racists for both "White Flight" AND Gentrification? Makes no sense at all.
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