U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-29-2017, 04:04 AM
 
1,197 posts, read 1,869,686 times
Reputation: 686

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Here's what I don't get how can white people be called racists for both "White Flight" AND Gentrification? Makes no sense at all.
It’s systemic racism. Sometimes it seems like people don’t want to get the scarlet letter of being called a racist. The system of suburbanization excluded the benefit of black people almost always (and when they did benefit, the white neighbors usually moved to somewhere else, hence the phrase “there goes the neighborhood”) and gentrification largely doesn’t benefit Blackand Hispanic people like it does white people.

To make a comparison, many people in the south weren’t racist but benefitted from the better quality white segregated school. Is the person who went to a white school racist? Not necessarily. Is segregation racist? Absolutely!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-29-2017, 06:57 AM
 
2,091 posts, read 765,737 times
Reputation: 2242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeman804 View Post
It’s systemic racism. Sometimes it seems like people don’t want to get the scarlet letter of being called a racist. The system of suburbanization excluded the benefit of black people almost always (and when they did benefit, the white neighbors usually moved to somewhere else, hence the phrase “there goes the neighborhood”) and gentrification largely doesn’t benefit Blackand Hispanic people like it does white people.

To make a comparison, many people in the south weren’t racist but benefitted from the better quality white segregated school. Is the person who went to a white school racist? Not necessarily. Is segregation racist? Absolutely!
Don't people of all races just tend to want to live around, associate with, do business with people who look/act like them? Like NYC never had segregation yet everyone self segregated into certain neighborhoods by race/ethnicity. I wouldn't necessarily call that racism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2017, 11:26 PM
 
1,197 posts, read 1,869,686 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Don't people of all races just tend to want to live around, associate with, do business with people who look/act like them? Like NYC never had segregation yet everyone self segregated into certain neighborhoods by race/ethnicity. I wouldn't necessarily call that racism.
The difference is choice. White people had a choice, Black people did not have the option to move to the suburbs because they were never shown the house or they were denied the loan. When they finally could made a way to a suburb, everyone else would move. That’s a racist system.

NYC’s racial enclaves have more to do with being afforded a better opportunity. The ethnic neighborhoods catered to the culture that was prevalent and expanded as populations grew. For example, if you only knew Chinese you can survive and thrive around people that understand the language, set up community staples like grocery stores, social clubs etc. then invite more family from China. Now, there is certainly a valid argument for discrimination to recent immigrants but it’s definitely not the same thing.

A more valid comparison IMO is the more established immigrants preventing other groups from moving in. This happened in Howard Beach and Bay Ridge in heavily Italian hoods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2017, 06:28 PM
 
3,220 posts, read 1,553,831 times
Reputation: 2352
Most White-Flight was FEAR of plummeting housing values. Realtors LOWERED values if a neighborhood gained families of Color. That exasperated the FEAR of -"last one out too the BIGGEST loss".

There was also the old mentality of "keeping up with the Jones" in maintaining as norm of maintenance in areas with frontage and lawns. I remember my aging relatives in Chicago's Northwest side of 50s 60s neighborhoods. They were in part .... victims and in part prejudice with fear of TAKING LOSSES on property they sold (almost all did in changing neighborhoods then).

They were a product (in the inner-city middle-class and higher neighborhoods) of a generation that manicured their lawns (Chicago's layout was with front green-space). You hedged the grass that met the sidewalk or you were lazy and of a lower standard then the rest.

The newer areas my White relatives moved in the 60s were then newer neighborhoods still in the city. They continued the high-maintenance of their new properties to a standard of the time. If a neighborhoods was LESS MANICURED? It went downhill. Didn't matter the race living there. But it was certainly true to them of some Ethnic groups to them.

Primarily, their main issue that lead to them in White-Flight was:
- REALTORS lowering their property vlues and lost equity.
- Next was that other groups were less particular in their properties.
- Then the anger that lead to prejudice, blame and bigotry.

Sadly, many neighborhoods that did change .... did decline. Some in the era of riots last housing to destruction.

The era I knew my Chicago relatives in .... was the early 80s and lived there 6-years. I loved the city but knew how people judged you ... WHERE YOU LIVED IN THE CITY. The layout was they knew the blocks and neighborhood. But the ... 100 or 1000 addressing North, South, East and West. With certain main streets kinda borders of the Changed neighborhoods. That was the mentality.

Even downtown then was a declined zone they never went to again from its 50s glory and thru the 70s it did see declines despite new iconic skyscrapers built. Today IT'S THE GLORY OF THE CITY .... ITS CORE.

Chicago still had a Southwest sides and Northwest sides.... that those of White-Flight could build new into the early 60s. Of course, many went to the suburbs too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
25,019 posts, read 23,916,326 times
Reputation: 30899
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Don't people of all races just tend to want to live around, associate with, do business with people who look/act like them? Like NYC never had segregation yet everyone self segregated into certain neighborhoods by race/ethnicity. I wouldn't necessarily call that racism.
Yes, they do. Every day people post here looking for a neighborhood where they will fit, feel comfortable, and buy the food they enjoyed while growing up. Just don't ask for a white, middle class, Protestant neighborhood. The sharks here will rip you to pieces.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2017, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Clifton, Cincinnati
114 posts, read 80,904 times
Reputation: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Don't people of all races just tend to want to live around, associate with, do business with people who look/act like them? Like NYC never had segregation yet everyone self segregated into certain neighborhoods by race/ethnicity. I wouldn't necessarily call that racism.

I certainly don't. I'm 29, white, and recently moved with my family into our first house in a Cincinnati neighborhood that is 80% black, 20% white. I don't see the allure of being surrounded by people that look like me. I'm happy that my daughter will grow up playing with children that don't look like her. I think this self-segregation, for whatever reason, is silly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2017, 07:13 AM
 
16 posts, read 9,327 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Don't people of all races just tend to want to live around, associate with, do business with people who look/act like them? Like NYC never had segregation yet everyone self segregated into certain neighborhoods by race/ethnicity. I wouldn't necessarily call that racism.
NYC most certainly had segregation, even if it wasn't as pronounced as the South.

To some extent, yes enclaves will form. They become reinforced with such tactics as blockbusting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2017, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,926,143 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeman804 View Post
NYC’s racial enclaves have more to do with being afforded a better opportunity. The ethnic neighborhoods catered to the culture that was prevalent and expanded as populations grew. For example, if you only knew Chinese you can survive and thrive around people that understand the language, set up community staples like grocery stores, social clubs etc. then invite more family from China. Now, there is certainly a valid argument for discrimination to recent immigrants but it’s definitely not the same thing.
Chinatowns are not a great example. Historically speaking, they formed in a very different way than European immigrant neighborhoods. Chinese people to a large extent in the 19th century did not migrate from China to U.S. Chinatowns. They migrated to rural areas to work on building railroads, or in mining, or to be agricultural workers. They only moved into the cities later, as anti-Chinese hysteria was whipped up and it became unsafe to live anywhere else.

Actually, the same dynamic happened with black people in the north prior to the Great Migration. Initially after the Civil War, there was a small trickle of freedmen from the South to rural small towns all over the north - which made sense, considering most slaves had formerly lived in rural areas. They were tolerated for a few decades, but as racial relations worsened following the end of Reconstruction, they were literally chased out of these small towns by armed mobs. They ended up settling into overwhelmingly black neighborhoods in the largest U.S. cities because those became the only safe places to live.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2017, 07:57 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 833,796 times
Reputation: 1220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeman804 View Post
It’s systemic racism. Sometimes it seems like people don’t want to get the scarlet letter of being called a racist. The system of suburbanization excluded the benefit of black people almost always (and when they did benefit, the white neighbors usually moved to somewhere else, hence the phrase “there goes the neighborhood”) and gentrification largely doesn’t benefit Blackand Hispanic people like it does white people.

To make a comparison, many people in the south weren’t racist but benefitted from the better quality white segregated school. Is the person who went to a white school racist? Not necessarily. Is segregation racist? Absolutely!
Lets look at the 60s neighborhoods. The Irish lived with the Irish the Italians lived with the Italians, the Polish lived with the Polish. So how was suburbanization white people trying to get away from black people? They already didn't live together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top