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Old 10-03-2017, 10:26 PM
 
16 posts, read 10,125 times
Reputation: 47

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
That's not true. Streetcars were not popular and buses were more efficient. Then economical cars were developed and most people started driving.

Streetcars couldn't compete with automobiles in the free market.
I don't disagree with this point. But neither does it contradict mine.

Part of why streetcars could not compete was a direct result of that slant towards cars legally wise.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
9,401 posts, read 4,681,135 times
Reputation: 3570
You stated the car companies had to lobby the government to kill the streetcars. You don't have to lobby the government if your product is winning in the free market.

But buses still exist, and they replaced streetcars because they are more efficient and require less maintenance and aren't fixed path.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:30 PM
 
16 posts, read 10,125 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
You stated the car companies had to lobby the government to kill the streetcars. You don't have to lobby the government if your product is winning in the free market.
It's not an either or situation.
There's direct evidence of lobbying by those automotive companies in the historical record.

It's also true that the car was favored.

I suppose it's the difference between the street car being in lower supply versus all but completely erased in terms of how a 21st century would look.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
9,401 posts, read 4,681,135 times
Reputation: 3570
Ok, so if you acknowledge the car was favored, what is your point in talking about car companies lobbying? What would be different about the outcome if these car companies had not lobbied the government, as you claim?

Lobbying or no lobbying by car companies, I think most Americans are going to prefer to drive today.

In my view, in this age of terrorism and mass shootings, moving away from mass transit as much as possible is a good idea.

I was living up in DC when the Metro wreck occurred that killed 10 people or so and injured dozens more due to some kind of signaling error. I would never put my life in the Metro's hands after that.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 10-03-2017 at 10:45 PM..
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:56 PM
 
Location: bend oregon
937 posts, read 874,558 times
Reputation: 358
theres too many drunk drivers. id feel safer with less cars
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
9,401 posts, read 4,681,135 times
Reputation: 3570
Are you willing to pay a higher fare?
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:51 AM
 
5,314 posts, read 5,513,978 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I disagree the public transportation here is poor. I think it works fine for the people who need it and the demand for it. I have never seen any evidence provided that the mass transit is poor.

Would the middle class people who want improvements to mass transit support paying higher fares?
By what criteria and assessment are you determining that public transportation in the United States is at an acceptable quality?
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:23 AM
 
21,766 posts, read 31,707,799 times
Reputation: 20713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peasy973 View Post
We all know why public transportation declined from the golden age that you mentioned. Cars, highways and suburbs.
As well as the lack of desire/funding to invest in maintaining infrastructure in general. The "if it's not broke yet, don't fix it" mentality does not apply well in this case. Sadly it'll no doubt never change given the fixation on providing the war machine shiny new weapons as often as possible.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:18 AM
 
5,314 posts, read 5,513,978 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok, so if you acknowledge the car was favored, what is your point in talking about car companies lobbying? What would be different about the outcome if these car companies had not lobbied the government, as you claim?

Lobbying or no lobbying by car companies, I think most Americans are going to prefer to drive today.

In my view, in this age of terrorism and mass shootings, moving away from mass transit as much as possible is a good idea.

I was living up in DC when the Metro wreck occurred that killed 10 people or so and injured dozens more due to some kind of signaling error. I would never put my life in the Metro's hands after that.
I guess terror cannot knock out a busy bridge and kill people? The Metro killing 10 people can compete with the annual death rate from automobiles (35,092 deaths in the US alone in 2015)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_U.S._by_year

Why do you think companies lobby so aggressively? Because it tilts business in their favor greatly. Cheap gas, subsidized roads, modified zoning policies, and the list goes on. The idea that things would be very close to the way they are with no lobbying is ridiculous. And the amount of built infrastructure for automobiles vs the infrastructure for transit is day and night. Again, when driving is the ONLY option, which will you choose? Driving or driving?

Last edited by AJNEOA; 10-04-2017 at 09:12 AM..
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:20 AM
 
5,314 posts, read 5,513,978 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
As well as the lack of desire/funding to invest in maintaining infrastructure in general. The "if it's not broke yet, don't fix it" mentality does not apply well in this case. Sadly it'll no doubt never change given the fixation on providing the war machine shiny new weapons as often as possible.
Absolutely true. Americans like to build something new, but they don't like to maintain what's built (autos or transit). It's another reason so many roads have been built. If maintenance of existing roads and bridges was adequate, funding would not be so readily available for new roads. It's a question of thinking ahead and planning, which our politicians do very poorly, if at all.
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