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Old 10-07-2017, 03:19 PM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,808 posts, read 1,305,104 times
Reputation: 3211

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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Thatís not a bad deal at all actually given that it includes commuter rail. You donít even wanna know what the MetroNorth or Long Island Railroad goes for
In a sense it is a good deal, but the service isn't all that great. The TRE is ok, but there is no Sunday service and it's only frequent service during peek hours. DCTA itself isn't all that great, it has less than 2000 daily riders last I heard.

I know the LIRR is kinda pricey, but at least you get 24 hour service with that.

Also it makes sense that LIRR would be more expensive than MTA because while MTA has 850 miles of track (counting non revenue track as well) MTA has 5,655,755 daily weekday riders and LIRR has 700 miles miles of track with average weekday ridership of only 337,800. Of course MTA does have more overhead for running more trains and having more stations, but it is more efficient. also If you break down the amount of Non Revenue track LIRR also has much more of than than MTA.

The LIRR monthly pass is still cheaper than car payments and insurance on my pretty unexciting 5 year old car. Not to mention parking or gas.

You can EVENTUALLY get to pretty much anywhere in Dallas with bus service, but it can take hours. Some suburbs don't have any bus service. By bro is a teacher in one of those burbs and had to buy a car just to get to and from work.

Part of that comes from the massive size of the metro: it's larger than several east coast states. It would be really hard to provide good transit to the whole state of Connecticut. Heck, DFW airport is larger than Manhattan on it's own.
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Old 10-08-2017, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,309,145 times
Reputation: 1831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92 View Post
In a sense it is a good deal, but the service isn't all that great. The TRE is ok, but there is no Sunday service and it's only frequent service during peek hours. DCTA itself isn't all that great, it has less than 2000 daily riders last I heard.

I know the LIRR is kinda pricey, but at least you get 24 hour service with that.

Also it makes sense that LIRR would be more expensive than MTA because while MTA has 850 miles of track (counting non revenue track as well) MTA has 5,655,755 daily weekday riders and LIRR has 700 miles miles of track with average weekday ridership of only 337,800. Of course MTA does have more overhead for running more trains and having more stations, but it is more efficient. also If you break down the amount of Non Revenue track LIRR also has much more of than than MTA.

The LIRR monthly pass is still cheaper than car payments and insurance on my pretty unexciting 5 year old car. Not to mention parking or gas.

You can EVENTUALLY get to pretty much anywhere in Dallas with bus service, but it can take hours. Some suburbs don't have any bus service. By bro is a teacher in one of those burbs and had to buy a car just to get to and from work.

Part of that comes from the massive size of the metro: it's larger than several east coast states. It would be really hard to provide good transit to the whole state of Connecticut. Heck, DFW airport is larger than Manhattan on it's own.
Thanks for the info. Funny, Iím actually on the LIRR right now as Iím typing this. LIRR (and MetroNorth too) are also part of the MTA as well but I know what you mean. Everything you said is very true. I honestly never realized just how expensive it really is to own a car. Growing up my household had one single car and it was really only used to get out of NYC. I can count on one hand people I know here that have a car. Itís a completely different world to me.

I havenít been to Dallas but Iíve been to many other Southern and Sunbelt cities. Everything is always soooo spread out! I guess itís just not feasible to see improvements in transit until our cities (not just Dallas; many others too) develop greater population and structural density. And holy ****, you really werenít kidding:
https://guernicatheory.wordpress.com...-of-manhattan/

I canít even wrap my head around that. Thatís a really good example of two different extremes. I think built environment plays a role in perception when it comes to these things. Manhattan feels a lot larger than it really is because thereís so much stuff crammed into that little island. Then OTOH in Texas you have all that extra space so larger areas probably feel a lot emptier and smaller. Also you can travel longer distances much quicker down there than you could up here.

And also, not even gonna lie, I had to look it up to verify ó DFW Metro is almost twice as large as the State of Connecticut! Like wtf? I mean I know Connecticut is a really tiny State, but this is just another thing I canít mentally grasp in my mind. I know they say that everythingís bigger in Texas, but wow.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:30 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,591,311 times
Reputation: 6091
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Thanks for the info. Funny, Iím actually on the LIRR right now as Iím typing this. LIRR (and MetroNorth too) are also part of the MTA as well but I know what you mean. Everything you said is very true. I honestly never realized just how expensive it really is to own a car. Growing up my household had one single car and it was really only used to get out of NYC. I can count on one hand people I know here that have a car. Itís a completely different world to me.

I havenít been to Dallas but Iíve been to many other Southern and Sunbelt cities. Everything is always soooo spread out! I guess itís just not feasible to see improvements in transit until our cities (not just Dallas; many others too) develop greater population and structural density. And holy ****, you really werenít kidding:
https://guernicatheory.wordpress.com...-of-manhattan/

I canít even wrap my head around that. Thatís a really good example of two different extremes. I think built environment plays a role in perception when it comes to these things. Manhattan feels a lot larger than it really is because thereís so much stuff crammed into that little island. Then OTOH in Texas you have all that extra space so larger areas probably feel a lot emptier and smaller. Also you can travel longer distances much quicker down there than you could up here.

And also, not even gonna lie, I had to look it up to verify ó DFW Metro is almost twice as large as the State of Connecticut! Like wtf? I mean I know Connecticut is a really tiny State, but this is just another thing I canít mentally grasp in my mind. I know they say that everythingís bigger in Texas, but wow.
That's something about metro areas that I don't like, how cohesive can an area twice as large as Connecticut be?
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:22 PM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,808 posts, read 1,305,104 times
Reputation: 3211
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
That's something about metro areas that I don't like, how cohesive can an area twice as large as Connecticut be?
So that size is sorta deceptive. The actual built up part of DFW is about the size of Connecticut, the metro area includes neighboring counties which although they are part of the metroplex are much less densely populated.

As for cohesiveness I guess it depends what you mean. Dallas and Fort Worth feel different from each other but are pretty cohesive within themselves. As for the suburbs? Burbs are burbs, They are planned development. Some are better than others but I'm not sure how they on a whole are any more or less cohesive than Long Island or the Inland Empire or suburban Indianapolis for that matter.
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Old 10-09-2017, 05:52 AM
 
Location: South Padre Island, TX
2,452 posts, read 1,282,037 times
Reputation: 1386
With all the discussion of negative stigma associated with PT, I'm surprised that arguments/brawls haven't been brought up. Loads of WSHH videos document such violence:
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/video...way%20fight%22
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,334,259 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Thanks for the info. Funny, I’m actually on the LIRR right now as I’m typing this. LIRR (and MetroNorth too) are also part of the MTA as well but I know what you mean. Everything you said is very true. I honestly never realized just how expensive it really is to own a car. Growing up my household had one single car and it was really only used to get out of NYC. I can count on one hand people I know here that have a car. It’s a completely different world to me.

I haven’t been to Dallas but I’ve been to many other Southern and Sunbelt cities. Everything is always soooo spread out! I guess it’s just not feasible to see improvements in transit until our cities (not just Dallas; many others too) develop greater population and structural density. And holy ****, you really weren’t kidding:
https://guernicatheory.wordpress.com...-of-manhattan/

I can’t even wrap my head around that. That’s a really good example of two different extremes. I think built environment plays a role in perception when it comes to these things. Manhattan feels a lot larger than it really is because there’s so much stuff crammed into that little island. Then OTOH in Texas you have all that extra space so larger areas probably feel a lot emptier and smaller. Also you can travel longer distances much quicker down there than you could up here.

And also, not even gonna lie, I had to look it up to verify — DFW Metro is almost twice as large as the State of Connecticut! Like wtf? I mean I know Connecticut is a really tiny State, but this is just another thing I can’t mentally grasp in my mind. I know they say that everything’s bigger in Texas, but wow.
It's always funny that you can visit a "small city of 200,000" in Europe, yet it has an incredible footprint of vibrant urban, walkable area serviced by strong transportation. You come in by train, walk, take the subway, take a cab, and you say "wow, look at this big urban city." And then you take a trip to a "big American city" with millions in the metro and show up at an empty tower in the garden downtown and wonder where all the people are hiding. A couple of strips have some nightlife and the rest has crickets. And then you find all the people when you get in the car and run onto the highway.

Last edited by AJNEOA; 10-09-2017 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:31 AM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,297,269 times
Reputation: 1520
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
wonder where all the people are hiding. A couple of strips have some nightlife and the rest has crickets. And then you find all the people when you get in the car and run onto the highway.
Which means that, for most American cities, the bus is the only viable form of public transportation.

But building trophy trains should change this.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:38 AM
 
2,561 posts, read 2,180,745 times
Reputation: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
It's always funny that you can visit a "small city of 200,000" in Europe, yet it has an incredible footprint of vibrant urban, walkable area serviced by strong transportation. You come in by train, walk, take the subway, take a cab, and you say "wow, look at this big urban city." And then you take a trip to a "big American city" with millions in the metro and show up at an empty tower in the garden downtown and wonder where all the people are hiding. A couple of strips have some nightlife and the rest has crickets. And then you find all the people when you get in the car and run onto the highway.
Garden Downtowns - a very apt description that applies to many "downtowns" of smaller and mid-sized American cities.

I was in SoCal for work few weeks ago, staying in Irvine, and had the exact same impression: many nicely manicured, purpose-built office parks, business hotels, and high end shopping centers and chain restaurants, but all spread apart by inexplicably wide streets (8-10 lane streets) and highway over-passes, tiny sidewalks, and total desolation without a soul in sight after working hours. On the one hand, it's top notch infrastructure for a completely auto-centric society like SoCal (well-maintained private garages, electric charging stations), but on the other hand one sees so much wasted space and massive amounts of public and private resources devoted to maintaining these "Garden Downtowns" that are completely devoid of life.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,334,259 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Garden Downtowns - a very apt description that applies to many "downtowns" of smaller and mid-sized American cities.

I was in SoCal for work few weeks ago, staying in Irvine, and had the exact same impression: many nicely manicured, purpose-built office parks, business hotels, and high end shopping centers and chain restaurants, but all spread apart by inexplicably wide streets (8-10 lane streets) and highway over-passes, tiny sidewalks, and total desolation without a soul in sight after working hours. On the one hand, it's top notch infrastructure for a completely auto-centric society like SoCal (well-maintained private garages, electric charging stations), but on the other hand one sees so much wasted space and massive amounts of public and private resources devoted to maintaining these "Garden Downtowns" that are completely devoid of life.
Right, that's how things are still being built in a lot of places. It makes the answer of "why" pretty easy to see. There's a cultural and money-making machine. You can't stop it, you can only slow it and eat up some of the crumbs.

Imagine going from someplace like Montpellier, France to Irving, CA? Two rich countries, but complete opposites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montpellier
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:13 PM
 
2,289 posts, read 1,297,269 times
Reputation: 1520
Some "downtowns" may be glorified office parks, but they serve a purpose more important than urbanity-they provide a sky line!
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