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Old 09-28-2017, 12:48 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Are you being sarcastic?
Just let him be in his happy little middle class bliss, while the world outside moves on.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,327,543 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulevardofdef View Post
Very good video overall, but one thing that doesn't add up to me: He partially blamed strict zoning laws for hurting public transportation in the U.S., but aren't the U.S. cities with the strictest zoning laws the ones with the best public transportation, and conversely, don't cities with weak or no zoning tend to have bad public transit?
Zoning in this country was made-over to favor the car even in places with strict zoning and an existing urban build. Incentives for parking, set-backs, etc. created a very different type of build. Parking lots sprung up, roads widened, etc.

In short, strict zoning doesn't mean it favors pedestrians or transit.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,327,543 times
Reputation: 3562
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I guess the vast majority of British, French, Germans, Austrians, Australians, Italians, Belgians, Norwegians, Danes, Singaporeans, Canadians, Japanese, South Koreans, Taiwanese are all dirt poor living under poverty line because they happen to take public transit everyday.

Pretty much every single developing and industrialized country on earth is making heavy investment into their public transit systems today because it is the way of the future. Why does America have to be the sole exception?
Rampant individualism and weak political will. People voting for what is good for them; politicians trying to get re-elected.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,795 posts, read 4,837,023 times
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I would think the days of domination of public transit by the USA is coming on us over the next 10 years. The excellent road system combined with the autonomous vehicle will make door to door commuting and other similar travel a dominant force in the US. It is now inevitable.

And aside for the very high density cores of NYC and such it likely rolls up busses and trolley systems.
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:49 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I would think the days of domination of public transit by the USA is coming on us over the next 10 years. The excellent road system combined with the autonomous vehicle will make door to door commuting and other similar travel a dominant force in the US. It is now inevitable.

And aside for the very high density cores of NYC and such it likely rolls up busses and trolley systems.
Problem with America (and North America urban planning in general) is that we tend to see public transit as a pure utility (bordering liability) - getting from point A to point B at the least expense and fastest time. Many times I cringe when I hear local municipal politicians touting the business case for building transit as "alleviating traffic" and "creating faster commute" and "unclogging our highways" (e.g. the new tram projects in Atlanta, Seattle, Detroit, etc.). The business case and general tone around building transit has always been about "giving drivers a faster and more seamless commute in their single-occupancy automobiles." Drivers first, everybody else second.

The reality is that no matter what you do today, road traffic is only going to get worse and more congested due to the physical limitations of space in urban environments and our steady population growth. There will be more people in the future, a lot more, but the same amount of space.

If you look at public transport projects taking place around the world in Europe, Asia, and even several Canadian cities to the north, the narrative and business case for every project is primarily around:

1. How public transit can encourage transit-oriented mid to high density development

2. How transit hubs can create vibrant, engaging, and self-sustaining urban neighborhoods that are destinations themselves, not just means to get from point A to B

3. How public transit usage can be coordinated with public health initiatives (those taking transit experience on average 30-50% physical activity than those taking single occupancy vehicles), and how this can correlate to lower cost burdens on our public health systems

4. How public transit can be developed in conjunction with local arts and culture, building inspiring public architectures and public spaces that can stand the test of time (I mean just look at some of the subway station architecture being built in China, Munich Germany, the newest metro stations in Toronto, the new WTC station in NYC, and even some of the older DC Metro stations - they are fantastic architecture meant to create an elevated experience for every passenger who passes by)

Public art proudly on display at the George-Brauchle-Ring U-Bahn Station in Munich, Germany:

- Source: Wiki Commons

Place des Arts Station in Montreal - with large interactive news displays, music, and public art all incorporated into one:

- Source: Wiki Commons
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,795 posts, read 4,837,023 times
Reputation: 5681
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Problem with America (and North America urban planning in general) is that we tend to see public transit as a pure utility (bordering liability) - getting from point A to point B at the least expense and fastest time. Many times I cringe when I hear local municipal politicians touting the business case for building transit as "alleviating traffic" and "creating faster commute" and "unclogging our highways" (e.g. the new tram projects in Atlanta, Seattle, Detroit, etc.). The business case and general tone around building transit has always been about "giving drivers a faster and more seamless commute in their single-occupancy automobiles." Drivers first, everybody else second.

The reality is that no matter what you do today, road traffic is only going to get worse and more congested due to the physical limitations of space in urban environments and our steady population growth. There will be more people in the future, a lot more, but the same amount of space.

If you look at public transport projects taking place around the world in Europe, Asia, and even several Canadian cities to the north, the narrative and business case for every project is primarily around:

1. How public transit can encourage transit-oriented mid to high density development

2. How transit hubs can create vibrant, engaging, and self-sustaining urban neighborhoods that are destinations themselves, not just means to get from point A to B

3. How public transit usage can be coordinated with public health initiatives (those taking transit experience on average 30-50% physical activity than those taking single occupancy vehicles), and how this can correlate to lower cost burdens on our public health systems

4. How public transit can be developed in conjunction with local arts and culture, building inspiring public architectures and public spaces that can stand the test of time (I mean just look at some of the subway station architecture being built in China, Munich Germany, the newest metro stations in Toronto, the new WTC station in NYC, and even some of the older DC Metro stations - they are fantastic architecture meant to create an elevated experience for every passenger who passes by)

Public art proudly on display at the George-Brauchle-Ring U-Bahn Station in Munich, Germany:

- Source: Wiki Commons

Place des Arts Station in Montreal - with large interactive news displays, music, and public art all incorporated into one:

- Source: Wiki Commons
You appear to be under some delusion that steel rail has some advantage over a concrete strip. It does not. In fact autonomous vehicles will be able to run more people per hour than the rail approach. So going steel makes it worse not better.

Some way or the other you urban planner folk have developed a view that rail is superior to concrete. But it is very simple to determine that it is not. And the flexibility at both ends of the concrete ribbon eliminate the need for the middle tier of transport.

Now I certainly will note that the nature of the transport on the concrete ribbon is not yet known. Mega busses? Jitneys? Conventional sedans? Mini one person pods? That is work for another day as the metrics become available.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:47 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
You appear to be under some delusion that steel rail has some advantage over a concrete strip. It does not. In fact autonomous vehicles will be able to run more people per hour than the rail approach. So going steel makes it worse not better.

Some way or the other you urban planner folk have developed a view that rail is superior to concrete. But it is very simple to determine that it is not. And the flexibility at both ends of the concrete ribbon eliminate the need for the middle tier of transport.

Now I certainly will note that the nature of the transport on the concrete ribbon is not yet known. Mega busses? Jitneys? Conventional sedans? Mini one person pods? That is work for another day as the metrics become available.
Not making much sense, but interesting choice of vocabulary.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,582 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Just let him be in his happy little middle class bliss, while the world outside moves on.
I pay a lot money to buy cars, maintenance and parts for the cars, gas, car insurance, DMV fees, as well as pay taxes for roads and the public transit that exists. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect middle class people not happy with the current public transit despite it be free or low cost to pay higher user fees if they want it to be improved.

I don't expect other middle class taxpayers to subsidize my transportation choice.

My city has 11 bus routes that go as far as 18 miles out of downtown, a free downtown trolley with several routes, a bikeshare program, and a bus service that picks up handicapped people at their homes and take them to their destination. Yet I've seen middle class people say this is a weak public transit system.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:19 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I pay a lot money to buy cars, maintenance and parts for the cars, gas, car insurance, DMV fees, as well as pay taxes for roads and the public transit that exists. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect middle class people not happy with the current public transit despite it be free or low cost to pay higher user fees if they want it to be improved.

I don't expect other middle class taxpayers to subsidize my transportation choice.
Oh but we do, and have done so for decades.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the United States Government (fed/state/local) spent a combined $146 billion USD in 2007 alone building, maintaining, and repairing our interstate highways for the benefit of drivers. This does not include the nearly $100 billion state and local governments spend maintaining and repairing their local road ways every year.

So yes, we do and have subsidized your "transportation choice" for years, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Free market? Not really, but I and other fellow citizens do it anyway through our taxes because we care not just about our own well being but also the well being of others around me. A bit naive I know.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/25136
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,749,193 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I pay a lot money to buy cars, maintenance and parts for the cars, gas, car insurance, DMV fees, as well as pay taxes for roads and the public transit that exists. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect middle class people not happy with the current public transit despite it be free or low cost to pay higher user fees if they want it to be improved.

I don't expect other middle class taxpayers to subsidize my transportation choice.

My city has 11 bus routes that go as far as 18 miles out of downtown, a free downtown trolley with several routes, a bikeshare program, and a bus service that picks up handicapped people at their homes and take them to their destination. Yet I've seen middle class people say this is a weak public transit system.
We do subsidize your mode of transportation.
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