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Old 09-28-2017, 04:45 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810

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Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
Railroad ridership was already in peril at the time of the end of steam and mass move to diesel.

Henry Ford's idea of a "car for the common man", the "I can go anywhere any time on my schedule in my very own car and the government's interstate program, the American's love a fair with cars and the airline industry won out over public transportation in this vast country...

I live 2.5 miles from the nearest bus stop and I'm an "in town lot". I at one time could not afford a car and so I used the extensive bus system when I lived right on a bus route.
But standing bundled up in zero temperature weather for a half hour waiting for one to be sure not to miss it, is something I don't miss.

Much of the "Greater area" is rural and much of the county has more corn fields and dairy cows than people, that doesn't help. Try taking a cow to market on a city bus!

Our infrastructure is used by both public and private individuals and we know it is in disrepair. Private railroads DON'T WANT to invest in public railways, they make more shuffling cargo, and those that DO get shot down by regulations and public disinterest.

If love to hop a train to the big city outside my doorstep, and tgey have been working on it for a decade. May be it will happen maybe not. The. The cost factor, if it's not CHEAPER than the bus,bid rather taje a bus to the city.

And I love having my own vehicle. It's how I grew up living in,a town with No public transport system and out in the country surrounded by dairy, horse and corn field farms.
No one is proposing that we build metros and monorails through corn fields and rural villages. That is idiocy. Public transport is primarily for mid to large cities with population concentrations.

A very well planned and integrated public transport system can even extend beyond city boundaries and connecting smaller towns and villages in a seamless manner. Yes - in Germany - I've lived in villages where cow farmers take public buses and regional express trains from one village to the next. They have cars, but they also take buses and trains. It's not a zero sum game.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:49 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,176,886 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Most people support funding for roads because everybody uses the roads, and there is also already funding for mass transit, despite most people not using it. So when I see middle class people complaining about a free or low cost transportation option, it seems fair to suggest those middle class users pay more for the service if they want to improve it.
First let's one thing right: we are all citizens of this country, not "middle class", "lower class", or "upper class", or whatever "class". This isn't 1885 Britain.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,582 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
First let's one thing right: we are all citizens of this country, not "middle class", "lower class", or "upper class", or whatever "class". This isn't 1885 Britain.
So everybody makes the same income? There is no such thing as poor people, middle class and rich people?

If there are no income classes, then why are only poor people eligible for certain welfare services?

It was basically impossible to rise in class in 1885 Britain, that is not the case in America. That is what the class system in Britain is referring to.

What specific evidence do you have that the public transportation provided in all the cities in the US is not adequate? I assume, given the large number of cities in this country, that you have not used most of the public transportation systems in this country.

I don't understand what is controversial about suggesting middle class people who can afford to pay more pay higher fares to fund improvements to mass transit that they complain about and others don't use.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 09-28-2017 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Montreal/Miami/Toronto
974 posts, read 633,154 times
Reputation: 1033
I didn't read the whole thread, so excuse me if this was already mentioned. But besides U.S cities being car-centric, promote sprawl and not investing in transit infrastructure, I noticed when living in the states that people get looked down upon when using transit. So not only do we have urban planning failures, but also classist divides/attitudes of people who own cars v.s public transit users. Now with younger generations focusing more on transit/bike lanes, this point of view will decrease, but nonetheless, it's still a problem I find.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,749,193 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
What is more expensive? The costs associated with driving a car or the costs associated with riding free or low cost public mass transit. You aren't even responding to my point.
Driving a car is much more expensive. What's your point?
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,796 posts, read 4,837,023 times
Reputation: 5681
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
I don't pay taxes? Taxes don't go too fund road projects? Roads are privately built? Why aren't you willing to pay for private roads? News to me.
You don't get deliveries? No fire or police protection?

Roads predate the automobile by millennia. They are basic infrastructure. Yes they are enhanced for the automobile...but the automobile user pays a good part of the additional cost. Maybe all of it.

So there is actually no real evidence that the automobile receives a subsidy

The autonomous vehicles coming offer the opportunity to provide a vastly more flexible system with vastly greater capability. And well integratable into walkable neighborhood and such. All of a sudden you need vastly less parking space and most of it can be remote.

So we are on the edge of a monumental breakthrough and some of you want another useless trolley. .
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,749,193 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
You don't get deliveries? No fire or police protection?

Roads predate the automobile by millennia. They are basic infrastructure. Yes they are enhanced for the automobile...but the automobile user pays a good part of the additional cost. Maybe all of it.

So there is actually no real evidence that the automobile receives a subsidy

The autonomous vehicles coming offer the opportunity to provide a vastly more flexible system with vastly greater capability. And well integratable into walkable neighborhood and such. All of a sudden you need vastly less parking space and most of it can be remote.

So we are on the edge of a monumental breakthrough and some of you want another useless trolley. .
There automobile pays for no where near the cost of new roads.

Automobile infrastructure like the widening of roads, new roads in the suburbs, widened freeways to get to your suburbs, etc. Those are all paid by taxes and we would not have to waste that money off we did not heavily subsidize the driving.

We have autonomous vehicles, called trains.

A self driving car is monumental? It will still need parking, road maintenance, encourage sprawl, etc. It's no solution but a way of kicking the can down the road.
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
12,796 posts, read 4,837,023 times
Reputation: 5681
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
There automobile pays for no where near the cost of new roads.

Automobile infrastructure like the widening of roads, new roads in the suburbs, widened freeways to get to your suburbs, etc. Those are all paid by taxes and we would not have to waste that money off we did not heavily subsidize the driving.

We have autonomous vehicles, called trains.

A self driving car is monumental? It will still need parking, road maintenance, encourage sprawl, etc. It's no solution but a way of kicking the can down the road.
Utter nonsense. Cite a source that auto specific taxes don't cover their added cost. The infrastructure provides enough basic streets...tow lanes to each home...sufficient lanes to allow goods and services to pass between cities.

Now cite a source that the contribution of the personal auto above that is not paid for by auto specific taxes.

And trains not only are not autonomous...though doing so would be easy and simple...they are utterly lacking in geometric variability...once you point one it is all over.

And you obviously have no appreciation for autonomous vehicles. They can park at double or better the density of driven vehicles...but they need not park locally. They can move on for other duties and then reassembly for the ride home.
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Big Bayou
721 posts, read 298,570 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Trains are slow too, have to stop numerous times.
You realize that all the best transit systems in the world are some variation of a subway/train system, right?
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Denver
14,151 posts, read 19,749,193 times
Reputation: 8803
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Utter nonsense. Cite a source that auto specific taxes don't cover their added cost. The infrastructure provides enough basic streets...tow lanes to each home...sufficient lanes to allow goods and services to pass between cities.

Now cite a source that the contribution of the personal auto above that is not paid for by auto specific taxes.

And trains not only are not autonomous...though doing so would be easy and simple...they are utterly lacking in geometric variability...once you point one it is all over.

And you obviously have no appreciation for autonomous vehicles. They can park at double or better the density of driven vehicles...but they need not park locally. They can move on for other duties and then reassembly for the ride home.
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...-roads/393134/
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