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Old 07-09-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,180,902 times
Reputation: 16839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Palm View Post
west:



I know because I've lived in BOTH regions, west... that's why I stated from my experiences... That's what I experienced and observed.

The South is far more diverse....
I also lived in both regions and my personal experiences are the exact opposite of yours. The Midwest is far more diverse... So who's right???

Like West336 has been saying. Personal experiences can be misleading and not a true indication of reality. Post up some numbers that prove the South is more diverse. Right now we have two people with personal experience and two totally different opinions on the matter.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Where Else...?
740 posts, read 1,020,807 times
Reputation: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
I also lived in both regions and my personal experiences are the exact opposite of yours. The Midwest is far more diverse... So who's right???
That's fine if we don't agree.

So what was your experience? How was it far more diverse?

Let me clarify a bit: Having lived in and traveled the Central Midwest, is what I'm comparing to the South (or SE Texas where I live now). I've been to Dallas, and Atlanta as well. From what I've seen and experienced, far more diverse down here, and faaar less segregated. Far less. Like night and day. Alot more culture, as well.


Quote:
Like West336 has been saying. Personal experiences can be misleading and not a true indication of reality.
I disagree. Experience is indeed an indication of reality, not only that but a big part of reality. What's necessary in the job market, but experience, right?

West336 even admitted that it's segregated up there after I stated such. West also admitted that the cities that are diverse, such as Dallas and Houston, are not considered as 'The South'. Yet, that's where they're located, no matter what peoples' perception may be.

Quote:
Post up some numbers that prove the South is more diverse.
Right now we have two people with personal experience and two totally different opinions on the matter.
I can only go by what I experienced, Bydand. It doesn't make it less valid or untrue, simply because my experience differs from your's. Nor does it require my having to prove anything by posting numbers.. This is typical. City-Data. Forum. Banter. Only when real world/real Life experiences is expressed is when it's required to be "proven".... lol

I'm not trying to offend or bash. I'm just stating what I saw there for many years. It's unfortunate, yet a reality.

So, what is/was your experience in the South. What did you see and/or experienced that you feel the Midwest is far more diverse. I admit that of the cities that I've been to in that region, Chicago was the most diverse. World Class City.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:45 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 3,382,333 times
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I'm not sure how Dallas and Atlanta metro regions are far more diverse than Chicagoland, Detroit metro, St. Louis metro, and Cleveland metros?????
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Where Else...?
740 posts, read 1,020,807 times
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^ i'm not sure how St. Louis metro is more diverse. Chicago is far more diverse than St. Louis.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:00 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 3,382,333 times
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St. Louis has large ethnic white populations in the metro of Irish, Italians, Polish, Czech, Jewish, particularly relative to the entire caucasian population. This is also true of Cleveland and Detroit, though add in Greek for Detroit. Chicago has all of them, plus Serbian, Bosnian, Lithuanian, Russian, Ukrainian.

These groups are noticeably absent in Dallas and Atlanta, save for a larger Jewish population in Atlanta, but still nowhere near the size of Chicago's numerically and is probably even for Detroit and Cleveland's metros.

Chicago also has 2nd largest Mexican population in the country, much larger than Dallas. ATL doesn't register with that. Chicago does have a smaller Black population now than ATL, but Dallas's is way smaller.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,146,208 times
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Damn it! Clearly NOBODY wants to actually DO the research, so I'll look it up and get back to you.

"Diversity", will need to be defined, and I'm not sure it should all about race. I say that because black and white town, or white and hispanic towns, aren't (in my experience) the most diverse places. Diversity to me feels like a lot of different languages and cultures. Diversity to someone from the South may be black people. Diversity to someone from the SW may be hispanics. Some others feel that income should be involved. So what are we talking about here? Most likely racial, but maybe a composite score (I know there are diversity indices out there)? Also, I think 1st generation white Americans should be included, which is what I think makes the Midwest diverse (or moreso than the South). Also, is Texas or Florida part of the "South" as we are defining "South" here? How about "Midwest"?

By black and hispanic (and Asian, I guess) races alone, the South LIKELY is more diverse, but when 1st-gen white immigrants are included I wonder how close they are...
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:14 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,180,902 times
Reputation: 16839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Palm View Post
I disagree. Experience is indeed an indication of reality, not only that but a big part of reality. What's necessary in the job market, but experience, right?
No, a single persons experiences are NOT reality, it is a very narrow view of reality that can be distorted by their own perceptions and limited experience.

Quote:
I can only go by what I experienced, Bydand. It doesn't make it less valid or untrue, simply because my experience differs from your's. Nor does it require my having to prove anything by posting numbers.. This is typical. City-Data. Forum. Banter. Only when real world/real Life experiences is expressed is when it's required to be "proven".... lol
Roll your eyes all you want, the reason people ask for hard and fast numbers over experience, I just explained.

Quote:
I'm not trying to offend or bash. I'm just stating what I saw there for many years. It's unfortunate, yet a reality.
Not the reality I saw for many years... so which set of experiences is closer to reality? That question can be answered by numbers from a reputable source, not yet another repetition of a persons experiences.

Quote:
So, what is/was your experience in the South. What did you see and/or experienced that you feel the Midwest is far more diverse. I admit that of the cities that I've been to in that region, Chicago was the most diverse. World Class City.
Obviously the opposite of yours. To post more would just be giving my narrow slice of experience from living in the South for a few years, having family and friends still living in the South, and spending a LOT of time in the South; as well as years living in the Midwest. As pointed out earlier, that doesn't prove a thing really. It would only prove that my experience is different than yours, without showing which is the right view. Hard and fast numbers would show which set of experiences are the true view of both regions... or show that neither of our personal experiences are the truth, and that the diversity f both regions are almost even.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 34,180,902 times
Reputation: 16839
Quote:
Originally Posted by west336 View Post
Damn it! Clearly NOBODY wants to actually DO the research, so I'll look it up and get back to you.

"Diversity", will need to be defined, and I'm not sure it should all about race.
To make it solely race would be missing a huge part of what makes a region diverse. To say a big Greek population is the exact same as a big Polish population, is the exact same as a big Italian population would be 100% wrong. Sure they may be all the same color or race, but ethnicity diversity would be totally missed. I think it shouldn't be race, but rather ethnicity.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 10,146,208 times
Reputation: 2384
I guess the more I think about it there's no way the Midwest can win by numbers alone, because the South, on average, is about 30% black, and maybe 10% Hispanic, which few/no Midwestern states can say. However, I think there are a larger array of different folks in the Midwest, non-white AND white. If we did just immigrants/1st-gen Americans I think the results would sway towards the Midwest, and the opposite if we did it by number of non-white people.

Now I wonder what people think "diverse" is:

Is 70% white (incl. many European immigrants) and the rest 15% non-white immigrants, 15% non-white Americans, more diverse than 60% white and 35% African American, 5% Hispanic?
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:33 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 3,382,333 times
Reputation: 876
The South is not 10% Hispanic in each state. Overall maybe, but the only states with a significant Hispanic population are Florida and Texas because they are so populated. Honestly, outside of South Florida, there isn't a large Hispanic population.

Georgia is 8.8% Hispanic, with Metro Atlanta being 10% Hispanic.

You are right that there are way more ethnic white groups in the Midwest, particularly in the cities, than anywhere in the South.

No Southern city has a sizeable Italian, Jewish, Polish, Greek, Irish, or other Eastern European population except the Jewish population of Atlanta is sizeable and Dallas has the 2nd largest Jewish population in the south (not including Miami).
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