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Old 07-10-2011, 05:17 PM
 
1,806 posts, read 1,947,749 times
Reputation: 855

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goat314 View Post
Chicago is not 300-400 miles away from St. Louis. More like 280 miles. St. Louis also feels nothing like New Orleans, definitely more like Chicago and other Midwestern cities. Chicago is also probably one of the most racially polarized cities in the country.
Chicago is the most segregated yes, but not the most polarized. There are very few acts of racially motivated violence in the Chicagoland area. You don't often hear racist talk or racist viewpoints.

People just stick to their own and it's not just race, but also ethnicity. Irish and Polish live in one place, Jews and Italians in another, Mexicans in one place, Puerto Ricans in another, Blacks here and there, etc.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:55 PM
 
973 posts, read 1,034,993 times
Reputation: 567
st. louis feels like a hybrid between new orleans and chicago, but the new orleans relationship is primarily due to age and early trade connections. culturally, socially, politically and economically, st. louis is much more like other northern midwest cities. cincinnati has a more truly southern feel than st. louis and is much more conservative.

the notion that chicago doesn't have racist people is utterly ridiculous. chicago is well known to have some of the worst race relations of any major city in the history of the united states. that is a trait common in most major industrial cities, especially in the midwest and northeast.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,531 posts, read 5,998,299 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by slengel View Post
st. louis feels like a hybrid between new orleans and chicago, but the new orleans relationship is primarily due to age and early trade connections. culturally, socially, politically and economically, st. louis is much more like other northern midwest cities. cincinnati has a more truly southern feel than st. louis and is much more conservative.

the notion that chicago doesn't have racist people is utterly ridiculous. chicago is well known to have some of the worst race relations of any major city in the history of the united states. that is a trait common in most major industrial cities, especially in the midwest and northeast.
I tend to agree. Love Chiago. HATE racism. But there are many many many racists in Chicago!
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
1,411 posts, read 1,248,764 times
Reputation: 2120
All my relatives in Chicago are horribly racist. It is embarassing to listen to them talk.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,531 posts, read 5,998,299 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
All my relatives in Chicago are horribly racist. It is embarassing to listen to them talk.
Same. Can't tell if they're "so wrong" or that "it depends on the situation", but hate it nonetheless.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Where Else...?
735 posts, read 550,327 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel03 View Post
Okay, you are actually being a tool about this, so maybe we should try a more direct approach.
I'm not being a tool at all. I'm just not backing down to something I know to be true. You simply don't like what I'm saying.

Quote:
Well, actually it is. What do you think limited means? By your own admission, you haven't been to all parts of the Midwest. You haven't been to MSP. One of the biggest (and most diverse) cities in the Midwest. That makes your experience limited. Sorry. Like it or not. That's what it means.
Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the country. As big and diverse as it is, it's cultural and racial diversity has had little impact to most of the rest of the Midwest. I'm basing that strictly on having been to a great part of the Midwest. I did not see consistant racial diversity across the Midwest plains, like I saw in Chicago. Doesn't make my experience limited just because I haven't been to the Twin Cities. Nor does it change the fact that other parts of the Midwest are less diverse.

Quote:
Um, yeah, IN THE PLACES YOU WERE. How can you not understand that that doesn't mean the entire Midwest is that way? What a sweeping generalization!
What's sweeping is the lack of diversity in general in the Midwest.

Quote:
Of course they are! Did you even read what I wrote? Of course they're "real and valid," but that only means they provide an accurate picture of what you saw, not what every single part of the region is like all the time!
Unfortunately, it is. There are of course exceptions, but in general, the region is less diverse. What I saw, was that it was across the region. Again, with Chicago being the exception.


Quote:
I don't know where you saw this, but I've never experienced anything like racial polarization anywhere in the Midwest. Certainly not in Chicago or MSP. I could *maybe* see it happening in Kansas City or (even more *maybe*) St. Louis. Maybe.
Unfortunately, it is the case in St. Louis. I'm most willing to believe that MSP isn't [as] racially polarized. I hope that it's not.


Quote:
Yes, of course you can, but you aren't listening. It's fine if you say "in my experience, the Midwest has been this way," but only if you don't let that mean, "the Midwest is this way because it has been this way in my experience."
it is that way, because....it is that way. There is no other way to know, but having been thru it, seen it and experienced it first hand. Unlike alot of people, I don't speak on things without actually having some kind of knowledge on it. I'm not going to speak on something I don't know about. If I don't know, I will admit it. But in this case, I do know, because I lived in that region.




Quote:
yes, and based on what goes on in life, real life, (not life according to City-Data), is how I can, without hesitation, state on here what I know is true.
Quote:
Oh my GOD! It's like you can't separate subjective and objective reality! You say it's your opinion, so WHY are you saying it's true?
I never said it was my opinion. You all said it's my opinion.


Quote:
It's your opinion!
according to you. What I've stated is the truth. That's why you all are rejecting it, and minimizing it as "limited" experience and "just my opinion".

Quote:
That makes not objectively true! It might be accurate based on what you've seen and in some ways overall, but the simple fact that it is your opinion means that by its very nature, it is not true.

It's not my opinion. It is simply the truth. People do not like to hear the truth when it isn't in their favor.


Quote:
What cities? You keep bringing up St. Louis. What other cities do you have real, legitimate experience in? MSP? Indianapolis? Milwaukee? Madison? Sioux Falls? Des Moines? Iowa City? Cleveland? Cincinnati? Columbus? Kansas City? Omaha? Lincoln? Fargo? Detroit? There's quite a lot more to the Midwest than just St. Louis.
Yes, and I named the cities in my previous posts.

Quote:
It's like a mix of Midwest and South, similar to Cincinnati. Missouri just has a more southern attitude than the rest of the region. There are more southern accents, the rural areas. It's just a border state, that's all.
Ok. I've heard this before. It didn't feel southern to me. Now SW Mo felt little more western to me, because of the rolling hills, and the rock formation.




Quote:
Let me just post this list of the nationalities of my elementary friends again: Japan, Malaysia, Namibia, Australia, Laos, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Egypt, China, and Somalia. There were also families from Russia, Poland, Thailand, Taiwan, Tanzania, Brazil, and Kenya. That I can think of. Explain to me how that isn't diverse
.

Again, I didn't say that it wasn't.

Quote:
I have. We have.
No, you have not. You responses were , that my experience was "limited".
But "you should I should" is not an argument worth having ever. That will just lead to nuh-uh/uh-huh/nuh-uh/uh-huh forever.[/quote]

No, not necessarily. It doesn't have to. You intially stated that I need to consider what others have said, all I'm saying is that they should also consider what I'm saying. IT goes both ways.



Quote:
Maybe not quite as diverse,.....
exactly. which has been my point. "Not quite as" is just a softer way of saying that it's not as diverse or less diversity.





Quote:
BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THAT
Yes I can.... and I have...lol

Quote:
if all you have experience with is the central region! Which is much more southern than the upper midwest! St. Louis feels a lot more like New Orleans than Chicago and Madison feels a lot more like Chicago than St. Louis.
Milwaukee felt the same as St. Louis, and that is less diverse. The diversity that I saw in Chicago was more than what I saw in most of the region.

Quote:
But my experience in elementary school holds true with what everyone else is saying. None of your experiences do. It's got to stand that test if you want it to be a valid point.

Everyone else isn't saying it what you're saying. There are those that agree with you, but not everyone. Your perception is flawed. . And everyone isn't agreeing with me, but there are those that have basically stated what I've stated. So my point isn't any less valid.


Quote:
You still have only mentioned St. Louis specifically. Where else? What other real experience do you have? Not just stopping in a city for lunch.
But I've told you where else, and you dismissed it. it wasn't based on "limited experience". That is something that want to believe because what I've truthfully stated, you've simply rejected. I can't help that you choose to ignore the truth.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
13,440 posts, read 14,799,446 times
Reputation: 5037
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowincal11 View Post
Even then, Dallas/FTW Metroplex is 6 million of which 23% are Hispanic. So that's about 1.3 million.

Chicagoland is about 10 million in the 9 country area and approx. 1.7 million Hispanics.

As a percentage Dallas Metroplex has a higher Hispanic population, but numerically Chicago wins even if you take out the Puerto Rican population.
Those numbers are very wrong. There are 1.7 million Hispanics in DFW. There are 1.9 million Hispanics in Chicago.
US2010

http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/segre...?metroid=19100
It's comparable.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Where Else...?
735 posts, read 550,327 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
QueenPalm, you are saying (over and over and over) your experience is NOT limited, right? So what you are saying is that you have been to ALL states that make up the Midwest, visited for at least a few days in every major city in every Midwestern state, and have traveled extensively in each of those states so you can comment on the rural areas and smaller cities and towns as well?
Yes. I've been in, around and thru enough of the region (a great part of it) to know that it is less racially diverse. The cities and rural areas.

Quote:
You have also done the same for EVERY State that makes up the South as well I would presume. If not, then your experience IS limited, vastly limited.
this is your opinion.

Quote:
Before you ask, yes I have done this in ALL of the Midwestern AND Southern states. I HAVE done this and consider my personal experiences as a narrow view of those areas.
that would be your own opinion on the matter. I just wanted to know what your personal experiences were, however amount of time you've spent. We might agree, we might not.

Quote:
THAT is why statistics and numbers mean more than "experience."
only to those who want to pretend on the internet forum that they have vast knowledge of the real world. Project some kind of prowess. When in reality they're truly the ones that have a limited view. Demands of "prove it" is generally a response to an unsavory truth that's been spoken. They're wanting to deflect from that.

Statistics are valuable data, but experience is as well. People just don't rely on statistics alone. They also rely on hands-on and first-hand experience(s). With experience you can get a more in depth look at the real environment. The ebb and flow.

Besides, If you were having this conversation/debate face-to-face, with someone would you expect them to pull statistics out? No.

Quote:
I doubt you will understand the point being made, so far you haven't grasp ANYTHING, anyone has said in this thread.
I understand your point very well. I have grasped what you all are saying. I just disagree.

Quote:
I'll post no more responses to your childish posts because you have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are either unwilling or unable to grasp the simple concept others have been trying to point out.
None of my posts were childish. We just have opposing experiences. I stated something based on actual long term experience. I asked what your experiences were. You gave none. You haven't proved anything more than what you've basically demanded that I do.

Steel said I'm being a "tool". West said I'm "antagonizing" things. If anything, the childish posts are coming from you guys. You didn't like what I stated. You a shifted into defense mode. You have given your opinions on what you want to believe that I've experienced. Thus, labelling my experiences as "limited". They're not limited at all. If I was speaking in favor of the midwest stating with the same fervor, and not being truthful, your responses would be the exact opposite.

I understand what you guys are saying, but I simply disgree.


We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Where Else...?
735 posts, read 550,327 times
Reputation: 627
delete. dp.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Where Else...?
735 posts, read 550,327 times
Reputation: 627
.
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