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The South is not 10% Hispanic in each state. Overall maybe, but the only states with a significant Hispanic population are Florida and Texas because they are so populated. Honestly, outside of South Florida, there isn't a large Hispanic population.
Georgia is 8.8% Hispanic, with Metro Atlanta being 10% Hispanic.
You are right that there are way more ethnic white groups in the Midwest, particularly in the cities, than anywhere in the South.
No Southern city has a sizeable Italian, Jewish, Polish, Greek, Irish, or other Eastern European population except the Jewish population of Atlanta is sizeable and Dallas has the 2nd largest Jewish population in the south (not including Miami).
well the South is more racially diverse, the Midwest is more ethnically diverse. In the South, you can see the diversity, in the Midwest, it's more subtle. This is overall, certain cities in each region are different
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Originally Posted by nowincal11
I disagree in the bigger cities. I think if you are in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland you can easily tell.
I live in Cleveland and it's almost entirely black and white on the East Side here....it doesn't feel very diverse to me at all, and I'm from Minneapolis. Being in all-black neighborhoods doesn't make me feel like I'm in a cultural wonderland. That being said, the West Side of Cleveland, I hear, is much more culturally and ethnically diverse. In fact, there was JUST an article about this subject in the local Plain Dealer paper, saying that the metro is basically black and white and not much else (but parts of the white population are VERY ethnic, just not in Shaker -- except the Jewish population).
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Originally Posted by Smtchll
well the South is more racially diverse, the Midwest is more ethnically diverse. In the South, you can see the diversity, in the Midwest, it's more subtle. This is overall, certain cities in each region are different
I think this sums it up very well actually, nicely done! I also think the Midwest's diversity is ALMOST exclusively in the bigger cities:
Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis-St. Paul, St. Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Milwaukee and Omaha (for metros over 1 million, or thereabouts).
Take the cities with population over 500K and you probably take the most racially/ethnically diverse populations and ratios in the entire Midwest. The South is more of a mish-mash.
St. Louis has large ethnic white populations in the metro of Irish, Italians, Polish, Czech, Jewish, particularly relative to the entire caucasian population. This is also true of Cleveland and Detroit, though add in Greek for Detroit. Chicago has all of them, plus Serbian, Bosnian, Lithuanian, Russian, Ukrainian.
These groups are noticeably absent in Dallas and Atlanta, save for a larger Jewish population in Atlanta, but still nowhere near the size of Chicago's numerically and is probably even for Detroit and Cleveland's metros.
Chicago also has 2nd largest Mexican population in the country, much larger than Dallas. ATL doesn't register with that. Chicago does have a smaller Black population now than ATL, but Dallas's is way smaller.
Much larger than Dallas? Dude, you continue to be wrong regarding the populations in Texas cities. Houston now has a larger Mexican population, I believe and Chicago is not that much higher than Dallas
Dallas is 42% Hispanic. Out of 1.2 million, that's approx. 504,000.
Chicago is 29% Hispanic. Out of 2.7 million, that's approx. 785,000. Even subtracting out the Puerto Rican population of about 100,000 and assuming 100% of Dallas's Hispanic population is Mexican, Chicago still wins that one by 185,000ish.
Damn it! Clearly NOBODY wants to actually DO the research, so I'll look it up and get back to you.
"Diversity", will need to be defined, and I'm not sure it should all about race. I say that because black and white town, or white and hispanic towns, aren't (in my experience) the most diverse places.
and yet, you stated in response to my experience(s) that "my word won't get me far here". You're clearly biased here, west.
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Diversity to me feels like a lot of different languages and cultures. Diversity to someone from the South may be black people. Diversity to someone from the SW may be hispanics. Some others feel that income should be involved. So what are we talking about here?
I believe that I made that very clear in my response to you.
You stated:
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Originally Posted by west336
The Midwest is segregated, for sure, but so is the South. What Southern area is as diverse or more than Chicago?
If you exclude black and white (Americans, not immigrants), what do you have?
I said in response: Asians, Middle Easterners, Africans, Hispanics, Europeans....
In my experience and from it, a city that is diverse has a fairly large group of these people represented. Culture is what all of these different people bring to a city. In addition to others from all other different backgrounds and walks of life.
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Most likely racial, but maybe a composite score (I know there are diversity indices out there)? Also, I think 1st generation white Americans should be included, which is what I think makes the Midwest diverse (or moreso than the South).
Yes, they're included, but not the totality of true diversity. It isn't just 50 different Europeans. Not denying that it's diversity within each race (I stated that as well), again, in the general context diversity, I believe it's what I stated above.
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Also, is Texas or Florida part of the "South" as we are defining "South" here? How about "Midwest"?
Yes. Texas and Florida,is part of the South. Certainly not part of the Midwest.
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By black and hispanic (and Asian, I guess) races alone, the South LIKELY is more diverse, but when 1st-gen white immigrants are included I wonder how close they are...
As stated above, I consider all races to be included........
Additionally, the Upper Midwest is much, MUCH more integrated than lower Midwestern cities like Cleveland, Chicago and St. Louis. The only Upper Midwestern cities that have anything even approaching racial ghettos are Minneapolis and St. Paul, and even those towns are very, very integrated by American standards. From an integration standpoint, they're on par with major Canadian cities like Toronto and Montreal. Smaller Upper Midwest cities like Duluth, Rochester (MN), Mankato, Sioux Falls, Fargo, Grand Forks, Rapid City and Bismarck are almost completely devoid of racial and ethnic segregation.
The South also has a lot of internal variation. For example, South Texas is primarily Hispanic, the "Black Belt" of Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia is predominately African-American and the Appalachian Mountains are lily White -- but they are all in the South. Someone from Atlanta or Austin will have a very different ethnic experience than someone from Magee, Mississippi or Stinking Creek, Tennessee. On the whole, the Midwest is more diverse, but you really can't contrast entire regions against each other -- there are too many local variations to make a serious comparison.
No, a single persons experiences are NOT reality, it is a very narrow view of reality that can be distorted by their own perceptions and limited experience.
This is your opinion, Bydand. Not the truth. Experience is a great deal of reality. Such as for example, the reality that one would need experience for certain job skills. Same applies in this respect. Something like diversity or the lack of it isn't a distortion. Neither would a serious issue like a segregated city or town.
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Roll your eyes all you want, the reason people ask for hard and fast numbers over experience, I just explained.
No, the reason people ask is because they do not want to hear the truth. It's a kneejerk reaction.
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Not the reality I saw for many years... so which set of experiences is closer to reality? That question can be answered by numbers from a reputable source, not yet another repetition of a persons experiences.
and yet you too, claim that you're experiences was opposite of mine's. So what you're saying would apply to you.
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Obviously the opposite of yours. To post more would just be giving my narrow slice of experience from living in the South for a few years, having family and friends still living in the South, and spending a LOT of time in the South; as well as years living in the Midwest.
Well, I spent many years in the Midwest. I just want to know what you saw and experienced in the South. If we disagree, we disagree, Bydand. Doesn't change my experiences....
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As pointed out earlier, that doesn't prove a thing really. It would only prove that my experience is different than yours, without showing which is the right view. Hard and fast numbers would show which set of experiences are the true view of both regions... or show that neither of our personal experiences are the truth, and that the diversity f both regions are almost even.
Well, I'm interested in knowing what you experienced in the South? It wouldn't change what I experienced up North. What city did you live in? I'm just curious......
This is your opinion, Bydand. Not the truth. Experience is a great deal of reality.
But that's just not true. Your experience may be "a great deal of reality," as you put it, but it also doesn't tell the whole story, since you yourself say that you haven't been to every part of the Midwest. Your entire argument seems to be based on limited experience. So it's fine if you say that the parts of the Midwest you've been to are less diverse than the South, but it's just silly to go any further than that because you DON'T have experience to inform you. The Twin Cities and Chicago are extremely diverse. I went to elementary school in MSP and there were almost 50 nationalities represented in the school. We had an International Festival every year. I had friends from Japan, Malaysia, Namibia, Australia, Laos, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Egypt, China, and Somalia.
Little-known fact: Des Moines has huge Bosnian and Sudanese populations. At my graduation, I sat next to a kid whose father was killed in the Sudanese Civil War.
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