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Old 01-08-2019, 01:31 PM
 
793 posts, read 287,839 times
Reputation: 778

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_hotline View Post
I don't dislike Southerners. Some of the best people I know are from the South. They are generally kind, and their women are strong and beautiful.

I do dislike the tiny minority of southerners who claim that the South did not secede over slavery. That's just flat out willful ignorance on everything leading up to the civil war, from Bleeding Kansas to the caning of Sumner.

I'm sure Southerners dislike all the Northerners who move down there.
As with most things that politically involved, there were a number of factors. Certainly slavery was the ongoing crisis of the day in ways it wasn’t during, say, Calhoun’s time when flirting with secession. In many ways it was a crisis the South manufactured for a number of reasons. But certainly the fear of emancipation drove the Southern elite, if not the common soldier, even though emancipation wasn’t a real threat in 1861. In one of the great ironies, the South creates the conditions in which the country could accept emancipation in an attempt to forestall something they had imagined was imminent.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Debatable
423 posts, read 185,093 times
Reputation: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel82 View Post
As with most things that politically involved, there were a number of factors. Certainly slavery was the ongoing crisis of the day in ways it wasn’t during, say, Calhoun’s time when flirting with secession. In many ways it was a crisis the South manufactured for a number of reasons. But certainly the fear of emancipation drove the Southern elite, if not the common soldier, even though emancipation wasn’t a real threat in 1861. In one of the great ironies, the South creates the conditions in which the country could accept emancipation in an attempt to forestall something they had imagined was imminent.
I am discussing the time immediately around the Civil War. The South's fears of having their entire slavery-based economy and way-of-life upended were extremely realistic, even if 7 states jumped the gun by seceding even before Lincoln had a chance to address the nation.

Northerners began to challenge the idea of returning runaway slaves to Southern slaveowners. This was a great threat to the South, as it could inspire larger and larger escape attempts that could cripple their economy. Even with the ruling of the Dredd Scott case being a southern victory, it only worsened relations by galvanizing previously placid northerners into opposing the south's push for slavery.

Bleeding Kansas showed Americans just how far either side was willing to go over slavery. Southern ruffians may have stormed the Kansas elections to protect slavery, but abolitionists already living in the state formed their own counter government in defiance. This terrified the south, as it exemplified the north's ever-increasing momentum against slavery. Their fears were magnified even greater by western states being generally inhospitable to slavery-based agriculture. Thus, the south could not "lock down" these western states economically by building the foundations of their economies off slaves.

I don't disagree with you necessarily. The common southerner and the southern elite both feared the end of slavery, but I argue that their fears of abolition were not manufactured, but simply a realistic look at the increasing power imbalance between north and south, as well as the political shift from compromise to conflict.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:54 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,012,684 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern man View Post
We welcome yankees. Come on down, spend your money and leave.
I can go anywhere in my country I please, and stay as long as I please.

I am sympathetic to the criticism that many Northern transplants are not respectful enough of the local Southern culture and customs. I don't see how you expect to change people's minds with this sort of attitude, though. Quite the contrary, you give people less of a reason to be respectful.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
I can go anywhere in my country I please, and stay as long as I please.

I am sympathetic to the criticism that many Northern transplants are not respectful enough of the local Southern culture and customs. I don't see how you expect to change people's minds with this sort of attitude, though. Quite the contrary, you give people less of a reason to be respectful.
Aye. It's attitudes like his that are just like the "Yankees" they so despise. They can't see how they are exactly the same under the facade. Snobs.

Just because you got a southern accent doesn't mean you aren't a snob.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:46 PM
 
793 posts, read 287,839 times
Reputation: 778
Quote:
Originally Posted by sad_hotline View Post
I am discussing the time immediately around the Civil War. The South's fears of having their entire slavery-based economy and way-of-life upended were extremely realistic, even if 7 states jumped the gun by seceding even before Lincoln had a chance to address the nation.

Northerners began to challenge the idea of returning runaway slaves to Southern slaveowners. This was a great threat to the South, as it could inspire larger and larger escape attempts that could cripple their economy. Even with the ruling of the Dredd Scott case being a southern victory, it only worsened relations by galvanizing previously placid northerners into opposing the south's push for slavery.

Bleeding Kansas showed Americans just how far either side was willing to go over slavery. Southern ruffians may have stormed the Kansas elections to protect slavery, but abolitionists already living in the state formed their own counter government in defiance. This terrified the south, as it exemplified the north's ever-increasing momentum against slavery. Their fears were magnified even greater by western states being generally inhospitable to slavery-based agriculture. Thus, the south could not "lock down" these western states economically by building the foundations of their economies off slaves.

I don't disagree with you necessarily. The common southerner and the southern elite both feared the end of slavery, but I argue that their fears of abolition were not manufactured, but simply a realistic look at the increasing power imbalance between north and south, as well as the political shift from compromise to conflict.
Lincoln wasn’t going to push emancipation during a non-Civil War administration. There was no appetite in the majority of the north and the South had a large block in Congress. Even after Gettysburg and with no Southern representatives, it took quite a bit of Lincoln magic to get the 13th amendment passed. See the really good movie Lincoln to get a snippet of the time. Any natural emancipation would have been a couple decades later.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Clemson, SC by way of Tyler,TX
4,842 posts, read 2,973,256 times
Reputation: 3387
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
I never encountered many "Yankees" until our most recent relocation. Now I'm seeing more how they view people and matters. I'm not sure I sense a "hate" for southerners, but there is a difference in attitude and culture that results in a disparity between people in the two regions. From a southern perspective, they often seem cold and withdrawn, and a bit snooty and putting themselves above others. I guess they see southerners as too warm and outgoing, and uncouth and undisciplined.
I lived in colorado. Never got this.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:47 AM
 
5,128 posts, read 5,839,163 times
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What I see, is that fewer southerners transport themselves to the northeast, therefore, you seldom hear a southerner complain about northeastern culture.

Whereas tons of northerners transplant themselves to the southeast, and proceed to bitterly complain that they encounter people who embody southern culture.

When you complain that southern politeness is annoying, because you prefer "people who tell it like it is", you are asking southerners to abandon their culture that evolved over two centuries, and to adopt YOUR culture. Well, southerners prefer the niceties that make daily life more pleasant, and they are not wrong just because you don't like it.

When you complain that people are chatting with the cashier and you are in a hurry, you are imposing your values onto a culture that values human interaction more than rushing.

When you complain about the food, you are disapproving of a regional cuisine. I saw a Vermonter complain on Instagram that everything in Charleston, South Carolina was made of butter. Holy Hell, you are only there on vacation! Try to partake of some of the south's best food - Charleston food usually wins accolades and the place is full of fabulous restaurants! Plus, butter is not actually bad for you.

The difference is that southerners are somehow aware that the north will feel culturally uncomfortable, not to mention the discomfort of cold weather, and so they avoid moving there. Northerners seem to magically expect to find their northern culture in the South, and when they don't find it, make no attempt to understand the values inform southern culture.

When you speak about the South in sweeping generalizations and with disdain, especially when you don't know what you're talking about, don't be surprised when you are not popular among your southern neighbors.

I worked with a Californian once who stupidly thought that all Gulf of Mexico beaches were like the beaches in Texas. She used to love to say, "You don't have an ocean; you have a Gulf" because she assumed the entire Gulf looked just like Texas brown beaches. Yet there are the Alabama beaches, the Florida Panhandle beaches and all the way down the west coast of Florida with the finest white sand beaches and clear emerald waters you could ask for . . . on the Gulf. I wanted to plunk the idiot on a Destin beach and tell her to open her eyes. I'm not sure who speaks worse about the South, northerners or Californians.

Last edited by Shooting Stars; 01-11-2019 at 11:07 AM..
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
What I see, is that fewer southerners transport themselves to the northeast, therefore, you seldom hear a southerner complain about northeastern culture.

Whereas tons of northerners transplant themselves to the southeast, and proceed to bitterly complain that they encounter people who embody southern culture.

When you complain that southern politeness is annoying, because you prefer "people who tell it like it is", you are asking southerners to abandon their culture that evolved over two centuries, and to adopt YOUR culture. Well, southerners prefer the niceties that make daily life more pleasant, and they are not wrong just because you don't like it.

When you complain that people are chatting with the cashier and you are in a hurry, you are imposing your values onto a culture that values human interaction more than rushing.

When you complain about the food, you are disapproving of a regional cuisine. I saw a Vermonter complain on Instagram that everything in Charleston, South Carolina was made of butter. Holy Hell, you are only there on vacation! Try to partake of some of the south's best food - Charleston food usually wins accolades and the place is full of fabulous restaurants! Plus, butter is not actually bad for you.

The difference is that southerners are somehow aware that the north will feel culturally uncomfortable, not to mention the discomfort of cold weather, and so they avoid moving there. Northerners seem to magically expect to find their northern culture in the South, and when they don't find it, make no attempt to understand the values inform southern culture.

When you speak about the South in sweeping generalizations and with disdain, especially when you don't know what you're talking about, don't be surprised when you are not popular among your southern neighbors.

I worked with a Californian once who stupidly thought that all Gulf of Mexico beaches were like the beaches in Texas. She used to love to say, "You don't have an ocean; you have a Gulf" because she assumed the entire Gulf looked just like Texas brown beaches. Yet there are the Alabama beaches, the Florida Panhandle beaches and all the way down the west coast of Florida with the finest white sand beaches and clear emerald waters you could ask for . . . on the Gulf. I wanted to plunk the idiot on a Destin beach and tell her to open her eyes. I'm not sure who speaks worse about the South, northerners or Californians.
You make a good point, and I am not here to tell you that you're wrong. However, I have to toss out a counter-point.

Yes, people from outside the south can be rude, ignorant and overly critical of the south.

But the truth is, and a lot of people do not acknowledge this, as loud and annoying as those people are they are the vast minority.

First criteria: money. The tendency for rich northerners to travel is far higher, a lot of southerners only ever meet "that" kind of person. It's wildly unfair to expect them to represent all northerners. In fact, they put down the north just as much when they are home. Calling Pennsylvanians hillbillies or calling upstate NY backwards, or assuming the Midwest is all corn and cow lovers. ETC.

Second criteria: vocal minority. MOST northerners do not bash the south. I'd wager a lot of us never even think about it. Tens of thousands move to the south and love it there. A very small percentage of "damn Yankees" raise a stink about everything.

Third criteria: expectations. There do exist a vocal minority of southerners who, before ever even meeting a "Yankee", will expect to dislike them. So let's say a northern man has lived in the south for a few years and generally likes it there. One day he states ONE complaint in conversation, and the "expecters" jump all over him. "YOU YANKEES TRYING TO CHANGE US RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!" Never even giving the situation any thought beyond, "git 'em, boys!"

The door swings both ways, and the loudest people tend to be the smallest crowd. You have to be able to look past the handfull of whiners and jerks, because chances are good that those people are never happy no matter where they are, and they whine about everything.
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Old 01-11-2019, 05:29 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,356 posts, read 7,012,684 times
Reputation: 4853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooting Stars View Post
.

When you complain about the food, you are disapproving of a regional cuisine. I saw a Vermonter complain on Instagram that everything in Charleston, South Carolina was made of butter. Holy Hell, you are only there on vacation! Try to partake of some of the south's best food - Charleston food usually wins accolades and the place is full of fabulous restaurants! Plus, butter is not actually bad for you.
Yeah, I can't wrap my head around people who act like that. Charleston has awesome cuisine. Had the best friend chicken I ever tasted there please don't listen to people like this guy. Keep being awesome at what you do best.

We WILL insist that you do pizza a little better though Because yes, it's that important! I did have good pizza in Charleston though. Probably owned by a Northern transplant
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,729,281 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post
Yeah, I can't wrap my head around people who act like that. Charleston has awesome cuisine. Had the best friend chicken I ever tasted there please don't listen to people like this guy. Keep being awesome at what you do best.

We WILL insist that you do pizza a little better though Because yes, it's that important! I did have good pizza in Charleston though. Probably owned by a Northern transplant
That reminds me, I forgot my counter point to that food bit.

Southerners put down northern food WAY more often than vice-versa.
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