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Old 10-23-2017, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
Reputation: 5374

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
In general, NY/NJ are wealthier places overall than Southern states. That's not to say there aren't people in poverty there, but it's generally not as widespread and the "lows aren't generally as low" as in the South.
I can say from experience that the lows do get as low, it's just not as common by percentage. There are people up here who live in conditions that would shock most upon seeing it.

I think there's a few perception issues that make things seem less harsh when they aren't, necessarily.

One being that a lot of houses up here are old and huge (bear in mind that to me huge means what most middle class Americans consider average). So some people who live in poverty in the north have a big house out in the country side because the thing is over 100 years old. At a distance it seems great but then you notice there's no power (this happens more than you think), the plumbing is bad, there may not be any insulation (keep in mind what winter is like here), it could be moldy, full of holes, have major foundation problems, bad roof, bad floors, etc.

The second being that for some reason there are more people in the north who try to hide their problems. I have family who will deny up and down what they came from, all because of some perceived social pressure to be "normal". In the south if somebody is in hard times, they aren't usually as afraid or embarrassed to show it.

The third being that some people up here have greater access to public assistance than in the south. This is true for most, but not for all. If you live out in the woods and don't have a car, you're pretty much screwed. There are no bus lines going to random valley, NY. That's where church communities come in handy, which I know for a fact is also a thing in the south.

The fourth being cost of living versus income versus debt. $45,000 a year is going to get you much much further in Alabama than it is in Vermont. Median incomes tend to be higher in the north, but so is the cost of living. It's about ratio, not raw numbers, when it comes to cash. That's why one flat federal poverty line is a flawed concept. Additionally, a lot of people in the north go into crushing debt because many people here go to college, and then never find a good job. Also bear in mind that a ton of jobs here are seasonal too.

The final being poor representation of the realities. A lot of impoverished southerners never meet impoverished northerners. Because for the most part, none of us can afford the travel. I got lucky. When you live somewhere, the visitors tend to only be the people who have the money to visit, so your perception of where they are from can be biased based on such a limited example.

Having lived nearly equal chunks of my life in rural upstate NY and rural Louisiana, I've seen the differences, but I have also seen the similarities. Especially having been from a struggling family myself.

Essentially in the south there is less facade for the poor.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:16 AM
 
1,829 posts, read 1,250,388 times
Reputation: 1822
I put off responding because I would only ever see this on mobile and it is annoying to respond to a post made like this on mobile because of all the copy and pasting needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaxyhi View Post
~~I said read before you bash me, but apparently YOUR AGENDA YOU MUST PUSH ON ME~~
The only reason I responded was because I read your entire post. I don't think I grasp what you mean, exactly, in the second part of your sentence.

Quote:
~~THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE WHO MOVE NORTH TO NEW YORK, THAN WHO MOVE SOUTH, MOSTLY DUE TO WEATHER. YES, BOSTONIANS WHO PAHK A CAH IN HAHVAHD YAHD MAY TAKE ISSUES WITH "Y'ALL", BUT LOOK HOW THEY SPEAK. MY MOTHER ALWAYS SAID SHE'D LIKE TO SEE SOMEONE FROM BOSTON TALK TO A DEEP SOUTHERNER. REMEMBER, MY MOTHER'S FAMILY WAS FROM MID-SPUTHERN REGION, AND I WAS BROUGHT UP BOTH WITH THISE SYEREOTYPES AND A NEW YAWKER PERSPECTIVE.~~
So it is okay to ostracize people if they have traits you aren't used to? Which in this case means since such fewer people move North, New Yorkers are not used to Southern accents and, therefore, of course they treated me differently and it is all okay? Yeah, no thank you, I'm not buying that.

Quote:
~~BY MYOB I MEAN HEAD DOWN AND DON'T TSLK TO EVERY ONE YOU MEET, I DON'T FEEL A NEED TO CHAT UP WITH EVERYONE I SEE, EVEN THOUGH SOUTHERNERS DO IT AS A ROUTINE COURSE. I ALSO DON'T SEE A NEED TO WAVE AT EVERY PERSON I SEE, I'M NOT THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND NOR THE NEXT PRESIDENTISL HOPEFULL. IF YOU HAVE A SPEACH IMPEDIMEMT, I'M SORRY YOU GET MOCKED. IF IT'S SIMPLY YOUR REGIONAL DIALECT, WELL ARE YOU TELLING ME YOU DON'T MAKE FUN OF "NORTHERN SPEAK"??? NEVER??? SO DON'T GET SO HIGH AND MIGHTY HERE EITHER, AS YOU TELL ME~~
First, I think we all know your are exaggerating-not everyone talks to you in the South. The waving thing is just different, in the South it is considered polite to acknowledge that other people exist. In the North, it apparently isn't. Do I prefer one over the other? Yes. Do I think one is objectively better and one group should "take a page" from the other? No, of course not.

Second, I got mocked for both by different people but addressing my speech impediment, I started thinking it was a cultural thing because it happened so often in such a short period of time (I clearly remember five over a period of just four months) from different people who, as far as I was aware, had no relation to each other. I've lived the vast majority of my life in the South and had only been mocked a handful of times, and never once by adults. Maybe it was because I am Asian American and the people I met in the Northeast thought my speech was just a foreign accent? No idea, maybe, but that leads me to. . .

Third, no, I have never made fun of a Northern accent, I have never made fun of any accent, I have never made fun of a person for having an accent. It is a very rude thing to do and I am pretty sure it is considered bullying in most cases when it is done in front of a person with said accent. Your response makes it sound like this sort of thing is acceptable in the part of the North you hail from, which I hope is not the case.

Quote:
I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. IT'S USUALLY FOLLOWED BY " WALL THEN, Y'ALL COME ALONG TO OUR CHURCH THEN" IN A SOUTHERN DRAWL TO "RECRUIT ME", NOT TO ASK WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD I LIVE IN/ GO TO / VISIT. THEN I GET ASKED RUDELY HOW MUCH I TEND TO TITHE. IF THAT AIN'T RECRUITMENT AND ASKING FOR MONEY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.
Perhaps things are different on the East Coast but I never get that vibe in Texas, despite being a non-Christian. I do get asked to go to a church with them but I don't see that as recruiting. In fact, I am honored when a friend invites me to his/her place of worship (I've gotten it from varies Christians, including LDS, Buddhists, and Muslims), religion is a very important thing to people and if a person gives me the opportunity to come then, while I may sometimes reject, I won't be offended by it. Also I agree on the last part. It is extremely rude, in my opinion to ask for tithe from a visitor. I've never had it happen to me on visits to churches, but I guess the East Coast is different if it has happened so often to you.

Quote:
~~TEXAS...HMMM THE STATE THAT, WHEN IT DOESN'T LIKE A NEW POLICY WANTS TO "SEVER FROM THE UNION"??? TEXAS DOES VERY WELL CONTRIBUTE MORE THAN ITS NEIGHBORS, SAY LOUISIANA, WHICH TEXAS ALSO SUPPORTS.~~
Yes, the same Texas. That doesn't have an influence on my political views or the financial status of the United States though.

Quote:
~~ YOU HAVE DONE TO ME EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY I AM DOING, AND YOU LACK THE PROOF I HAVE. NO, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO YOUR GREAT SOUTHERN STATE, PERHAPS IT IS DIFFERENT THAN ALABAMA, OR DEEP GEORGIA OR S CAROLINA. PERHAPS BECAUSE YOU ARE FROM THE SOUTH, YOU ARE TREATED DIFFERENTLY BY YOUR SOUTHERN COMPATRIOTS.~~~
I gave you proof. You say we Southerners can learn from you with your comment about how we should take a page from your book. You make assumptions when you say Southern bible voters, whatever that is supposed to mean, just wants your money and to change your views. You make generalizations when you say Southerns, with no modifier for some/a few/most/whatever, hate people passing through. And you brag when you talk about, and mention throughout, how Southern Red states and Southerns are so poor with low wages and their reliance on your money from the Blue North.

Quote:
~~NEW YAWKERS WHO DON'T HAVE PILES AND PILES OF MONEY, DONT TEND TO VISIT THE SOUTHERN STATES. WHY?? LACK OF THE MONEY OF WHICH YOU SPEAK. ONLY NEW YAWKERS OF MEANS DO. AND I SEE YOU CONVENIENTLY LEFT OUT A CITATION AS TO YOUR "NEW YORK IS POORER THAN MOST OF THE SOUTHERN STATES." GEE I GUESS WALL STREET DOESN'T EXIST? I GUESS THE WHILE ENTIRE LOWER STATE AREA DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE TO ANYTHING IN THIS COUNTRY? SOUNDS LIKE YOU DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF DOING.....LOOK WITHIN BEFORE YOU CURSE WITHOUT. NEW YORK AND CALIFORNIA, AND PERHAPS YOUR TEXAS SUPPORT A LOT OF THE GOVERNMENTS AGENDA, BOTH DEM. AND REPUB. FOR A VERY LONG TIME. IT'S NOT NEW NEWS.
My point wasn't that poor New Yorkers don't visit the South with piles of money. My point was that the majority of New Yorkers are unable to because they cannot afford to do so. You try to paint such a one sided picture with the poor Southerners relying on the wealthy Democratic voting Northerners to survive economically but your state of New York is hardly one many Southern states would want to resemble when it comes to financially providing for their population.

It doesn't matter if Wall Street exists or not. That does not change the fact that a greater percentage of New Yorkers live in poverty than Southerners and the vast majority of Southern States. Well, taking into account cost of living which is often overblown on this forum but is very important when you are talking about poverty-a measure of how well off people are financially.

Also, you must be joking me. Parts of New York are in the actual Rust Belt. And so what if New York doesn't have a Bible Belt? Just because you like that doesn't mean everyone or most people do. No idea what you mean about "Look within before your curse without." I don't curse, ever, but I'm pretty sure you are saying something about hypocrisy. Care to confirm or not and then explain how it applies to my post?
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Old 12-12-2018, 01:21 PM
 
1 posts, read 606 times
Reputation: 10
I'm a southerner and many of the northerners I meet are rude, stuck up and fake. But that's really with any group of people with too much money and one hell of an ego. I think this is the way it is because the north originally consisted of a much richer class of people vs the south so in short, I generally don't like northerners.
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Old 12-12-2018, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ry.lee2127 View Post
I'm a southerner and many of the northerners I meet are rude, stuck up and fake. But that's really with any group of people with too much money and one hell of an ego. I think this is the way it is because the north originally consisted of a much richer class of people vs the south so in short, I generally don't like northerners.
Actually the south was far wealthier and had higher cultural and educational standards than the north until the civil war occurred.

Before that point the most prestigious college in the nation was in Kentucky, and wealthy southerners were on a level above even the wealthiest northerners. At that time NYC and Boston were gruesome ghetto-esque armpits with lots of fighting and rough-neckery.

The big northern wealth came from production FOR the war, and railroad tycoons afterward. Not to mention the carpet baggers (and an up-tick in old money immigrations from Europe).

The only thing the north had over the south in 1861 was sheer numbers and more industrial sectors.

The original "van-snoots" were southern.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:29 PM
 
1,294 posts, read 1,199,984 times
Reputation: 3047
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Actually the south was far wealthier and had higher cultural and educational standards than the north until the civil war occurred.
Hardly. You apparently aren't counting the 3,521,110 involuntary Southerners who had less than zero wealth, whose culture was taken away, and whose education was deemed to be illegal.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Baltimore
110 posts, read 40,818 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
Hardly. You apparently aren't counting the 3,521,110 involuntary Southerners who had less than zero wealth, whose culture was taken away, and whose education was deemed to be illegal.
Also, schooling was not a requirement in the South or in many other regions like it was in New England. Only, the wealthy planters which made up 5% of the population were guaranteed any formal education.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
Hardly. You apparently aren't counting the 3,521,110 involuntary Southerners who had less than zero wealth, whose culture was taken away, and whose education was deemed to be illegal.
I think you're cherry picking slavery to argue against me. Fact is more southerners held immense wealth at the time than northerners.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,732,092 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicstar1 View Post
Also, schooling was not a requirement in the South or in many other regions like it was in New England. Only, the wealthy planters which made up 5% of the population were guaranteed any formal education.
That doesn't change the fact that the most prestigious schools were in the south at the time.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:41 AM
 
1,294 posts, read 1,199,984 times
Reputation: 3047
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
I think you're cherry picking slavery to argue against me. Fact is more southerners held immense wealth at the time than northerners.
37 percent of the population is not "cherry picking."

How much of southern "wealth" was based on theft of another human being's lifetime of labor.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:46 AM
 
1,294 posts, read 1,199,984 times
Reputation: 3047
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
That doesn't change the fact that the most prestigious schools were in the south at the time.
But were the schools "prestigious" to anyone beyond southern white men?

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Rutgers, and Dartmouth were all founded prior to 1776. I think these were prestigious then, and they have stood the test of time.
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