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Old 11-05-2017, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,854 posts, read 7,801,051 times
Reputation: 9473

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
This is Chicago, and it doesn't look like a European, it doesn't look like an Asian city, not like a African or Latin American city either. A lot of Asian cities are building skyscrapers like crazy but most just glass towers. Which makes these building a reflection of history. Can't you just imagine these building being in a 1940's noir film.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/c5/22/5...icago-loop.jpg
Interesting pix of Atlanta. Chicago’s Rivoer North and The Loop, particularly where the el runs, gives off a gritty vibe.

I have an assertion that no matter how gentried a neighborhood gets, it will always contain a bit of grit as long as there’s an el. Fishtown, a rapidly gentrifying neighborhood a few miles north of Center City Philadelphia is an example: https://www.google.com/maps/place/13...b50818ce350fca
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Old 11-05-2017, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
4,552 posts, read 3,640,935 times
Reputation: 3625
Grittiness is mainly a rejection of cookie cutter development. Many developers who build the new "normcore" developments we see in our downtowns have attempted to add a more loft or industrial look with fail to truly figure out why gritty is appealing in the first place.

Grittiness is not always pleasant, but it's real. It's less snobbish, and it wasn't manufactured to be like that. Most urban developments and even suburban developments are manufactured to be a certain way, to market to a certain section of our population that are not inherently "gritty" people. Suburbanite turned urban-types, usually people my age (Millennials) who will buy an overpriced cookie cutter condo in Uptown on what once was an affordable area, doing the same thing their parents did, but in the "hood" and claiming to be cultured for just not buying in the suburbs and living in a dense area.

Gritty areas are not new areas, therefore had time to develop to be what they are. They were not initially sold as "luxury" or to tie into some wealthy mentality. They were just sold as urban areas, no other ties. No $400/month HOA fees, none of that.

The people in my age group, Millennials, who seek gritty areas seek real areas. We were born and raised mostly in cookie cutter suburbs with very fake way-too-happy customer service and surroundings, and the "problems" of the world like homelessness and "strange" people hidden from us. We were inherently protected by being in a manufactured bubble neighborhood away from "those" people and surrounded by people like our parents who chose where we grew up. Few Millennials in the US grew up in truly urban areas where there was a large diversity of people. Those who prefer grittiness and those gritty areas want reality, diversity, and potentially lower costs, than just the same thing their parents had but in a shoebox with a light rail station.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,672 posts, read 3,645,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
The people in my age group, Millennials, who seek gritty areas seek real areas. We were born and raised mostly in cookie cutter suburbs with very fake way-too-happy customer service and surroundings, and the "problems" of the world like homelessness and "strange" people hidden from us. We were inherently protected by being in a manufactured bubble neighborhood away from "those" people and surrounded by people like our parents who chose where we grew up. Few Millennials in the US grew up in truly urban areas where there was a large diversity of people. Those who prefer grittiness and those gritty areas want reality, diversity, and potentially lower costs, than just the same thing their parents had but in a shoebox with a light rail station.
Many parents of Millennials, when they were the same ages as the Millennials are now, lived in gritty urban areas after they moved there to escape the manufactured bubble neighborhoods they grew up in, so they could enjoy the reality and diversity from which they were shielded while growing up. But then guess what happened? They had you, and your peers. And they decided that peaceful, safe neighborhoods with good school systems were suddenly a lot more appealing than "real" gritty cities populated by "those" people.

Maybe you will buck that trend if/when you have children of your own. But don't be surprised if you find yourself back in the same type of sterile suburban neighborhood as the one in which you grew up. "Grittiness" loses its charm when you are responsible for raising and protecting a small human.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:05 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,735,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
But then guess what happened? They had you, and your peers. And they decided that peaceful, safe neighborhoods with good school systems were suddenly a lot more appealing than "real" gritty cities populated by "those" people.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what up a sec. You make a good point in general with your post, but are you suggsting that most suburban millennials are going to move out of the city because of "those" people?

And just who are "those" people? Do "those" people know that they are "those" people, or do they think that you are "those" people?
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,672 posts, read 3,645,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what up a sec. You make a good point in general with your post, but are you suggsting that most suburban millennials are going to move out of the city because of "those" people?

And just who are "those" people? Do "those" people know that they are "those" people, or do they think that you are "those" people?

I was quoting a previous poster who used that phrase, in reference to people in the cities who his parents chose to not live near.
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Old 11-06-2017, 10:48 AM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,735,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I was quoting a previous poster who used that phrase, in reference to people in the cities who his parents chose to not live near.
I was replying sarcastically. That wasn't directed specifically at you. I wanted to highlight your good observation about urban/suburban movement trends but also call out the 'those people' thing. Bad formatting on my part.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:19 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,168 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Many parents of Millennials, when they were the same ages as the Millennials are now, lived in gritty urban areas after they moved there to escape the manufactured bubble neighborhoods they grew up in, so they could enjoy the reality and diversity from which they were shielded while growing up. But then guess what happened? They had you, and your peers. And they decided that peaceful, safe neighborhoods with good school systems were suddenly a lot more appealing than "real" gritty cities populated by "those" people.

Maybe you will buck that trend if/when you have children of your own. But don't be surprised if you find yourself back in the same type of sterile suburban neighborhood as the one in which you grew up. "Grittiness" loses its charm when you are responsible for raising and protecting a small human.
The problem with this logic.............. 10 to 20 years from that Suburbia perfect fantasy won't exist.

A lot of sprawl and white flight happen because people had stuck in their heads of this "American Dream" fantasy. that their suburbia wonderland will stay the same for generations. When half of these places will likely change.

What happens is the suburbs demographic change, the population and traffic increase, some times crime increase, Some time strip malls and etc die. They find their perfect suburbia fantasy to nothing they expect 10 to 20 years down the line. It's essentially turn into the city, with out the advantages of one but with all the disadvantages of sprawl.

Poverty is moving to the suburbs

Suburbs and the New American Poverty

Suburban poverty is missing from the conversation about America’s future


And thing about crime and schools. The higher the population the greater the chance the crime rate would be off set and drop........ Schools the same thing... if more of those suburban kids went to inner city schools it would increase the school success rate. Suburban sprawl started only after WW2 but didn't really kick off until after the 60's. A lot people especially in the south left perfectly good urban neighborhoods the fleed because segregation was over. This drain wealth out of some cities in which cause more high poverty area and bad schools to start in the first place.



Another issue what no body talks about the culture of retirement homes increase with raise of suburban sprawl. This cause before baby boomers the elderly lived in communities that it would possible walk to the store, the doctor, walk to family and etc. Now this is lesser the case the elderly is now more isolated and dependent.

I brought this up cause you speak as if it just a cool trend for the young to live in urban areas like it's wiser and more responsible to live suburban area. Which actually it's opposite urban areas are built for people to lives whole live. Suburban sprawl is basically a experiment created by baby boomers who was not thinking about their own future. And how a cu de sac is not sustainable.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:34 PM
 
2,005 posts, read 1,018,456 times
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Sparkly and new, isn't nearly as interesting as a little grit. With grit, you have history, character, and, very often, cool.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:10 PM
 
Location: The Windy City
5,300 posts, read 3,302,710 times
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You can have character without grittiness. I don't think Paris is very gritty, but it certainly has tons of character.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:26 PM
 
2,005 posts, read 1,018,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
You can have character without grittiness. I don't think Paris is very gritty, but it certainly has tons of character.
Paris is gritty....very gritty in parts. To me, gritty isn't dirt, it's buildings that have survived the wrecking ball, that have the opportunity to be turned into something cool...condos, shopping venues, etc. It's old factories turned into condos that are much sought after, once they're completed. Dirt and grit aren't the same thing.

Milwaukee's Third Ward is on the better side of gritty. It's amazing, and keeps getting more amazing. It's now home to Anthropologie, West Elm, Restoration Hardware...all this, not in the new part of town, but in the "gritty"....their choice where to locate in Milwaukee.

https://www.google.com/search?q=milw...w=1920&bih=974

Iron Horse Hotel - Milwaukee...located in an up-and-coming warehouse district.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=19....0.HKMn-wOnYLI
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