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Old 10-21-2017, 07:46 AM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,463,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N610DL View Post
It's more a Millennial derivative - make the crappy areas of a city "hip" then they get driven out because rent goes up and they're in the creative class. It's not so much as applicable in 2017 as it was in 2007.

See Hoboken, NJ. It happened a long time ago in the 1980s.
Its not a millenial thing but they might like to claim it. This kind of thing in the modern era, started long ago even in the 70s and 80s in places like New York as you mention. and I think probably even before that somewhat in the beatnik era of the 1950s, artists would live in rundown areas because they were cheap. they were also called hipsters.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,855 posts, read 7,802,585 times
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I think itís the rejection of soulesss, generic, cookie-cutter sunbelt cities.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:21 AM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,368,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Oh this is a good thread for me! I’m on the subway right now omw out for the night so I don’t have time to make a full post but I will come back tomorrow.

OP, I don’t think you appreciate the artistic part of grittiness or maybe you just haven’t seen any good examples of grit. Grittiness can be really beautiful too, you’d be surprised. Grittiness is a very unique form of art with its own unique culture. Often times I find myself walking around Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan and just having to stop and stare in awe at some beautiful pieces of street art and just take a bunch of pictures. I have friends hate walking around certain areas with me because they know I’m gonna stop a lot, lol.

Tomorrow when I have some more time I will post some examples of what I mean. I live in a very gritty area myself (Southside Williamsburg, Brooklyn) and personally I love coming home and finding new tags on the door to my apartment building. Every once in a while my landlord will have it painted over, but there usually will be a new one again by the next day.

Also grittiness doesn’t necessarily mean dirty or no green around.



I don’t think you understand what grittiness is. Nobody here is talking about watching homeless people take a **** in public. What does that even have to do with the topic?
Sorry but you don't own the definition of grittiness and you don't get to choose which aspects of it you like and make that the definition. You have to take the good with the bad. Grittiness does include what I referenced. The graffiti talk is cute but as I said - that by itself is not grittiness.
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Old 10-21-2017, 08:26 AM
 
56,617 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Sorry but you don't own the definition of grittiness and you don't get to choose which aspects of it you like and make that the definition. You have to take the good with the bad. Grittiness does include what I referenced. The graffiti talk is cute but as I said - that by itself is not grittiness.
No it doesnít.
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:33 AM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,808 posts, read 1,303,535 times
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The problem with the word "Gritty" is it can mean alot of things to alot of different people. Its sort of like the word "Atheistic" which in our time of the Disneyfication of San Fran and NYC doesn't mean that much any more.

Something can adhere to an aesthetic of grittiness without really having the elements that originally make places gritty. I'll offer an example from a place I'm familiar with:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6172...7i10000!8i5000

Freak Alley in Boise, ID. Right in the middle of a very gentrified downtown (which was never THAT gritty to begin with) It looks/ maybe kinda feels gritty without having the elements of decline that make a place feel gritty to begin with. The alley started out with people just tagging, now professional artists paint it.

Compare that with a street corner in Dallas where I saw a mentally ill dude take a **** a few months back:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7558...7i13312!8i6656

The aesthetic of grit can exist long after a place looses looses what made it gritty. It's like the guy deliberately who maintains a 5 day stubble on his face instead of growing a full beard or shaving. The intention is to look like you don't care when you absolutely do.

NYC and San Fran are now hyper expensive cities that have held on to many of the industrial trappings. Funny enough (and I don't mean this as a moral judgment, just and observation) lots of these trust fund kids who are "playing blue collar" use the same jargon as folks in the suburbs do about changes to "Neighborhood Character"

Grit is an impossible characteristic to capture, once you reach the point where you are trying to "protect it" you have lost what made it in the first place. You can certainly maintain the aesthetic of grit if you like, but then thats fundamentally no different from maintaining the "fakeness" of aesthetics in suburbia.


I say all of this as someone who likes the aesthetics, even much of the "maintained" grittiness.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,308,027 times
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Default Picture time!

Here are some of my favorite pieces of Streetart around my greater general area (Williamsburg, Bushwick, LES, East Village)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/coffee9368/15433670633/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/coffee...-YCyvsW-n9fYtG

https://www.flickr.com/photos/coffee...-q13M93-rQxw5z

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbyzny/12268388813/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/generaly/27208398896/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/445499...-hVvjH3-imV1GA

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32883969@N07/22595210036/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8492172@N07/16958259205/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/thelig...y/33344375975/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/squirr...-6hVXT8-5xUWxa

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michae...s/33900517060/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joeholmes/14085204641/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrys...n/37399216441/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/backgroundgeo/9974899793/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tomwaibel/9533323880/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/eddenbow/5550248341/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/147642...4/36925815430/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanbudhu/5996358621/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/michae...s/33900517060/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/joeholmes/14085204641/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrys...n/37399216441/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/backgroundgeo/9974899793/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncan/16356634489/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/duncan/16568804386/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbyzny/36618012645/

A lot of these street artists are very well-known around the world. Except many of them have a secret identity and do their work anonymously since some of these are considered public works of art, yet others are considered graffiti and therefore illegal. Which I think makes some of them even more amazing.

For example, here is one from Bansky: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nolari...ct/3093567545/
And here is one from ATOMIKO: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephe...-GqYi34-LLRwPW

IDK How anyone can say that they don't see the appeal of this. Even if it is not for you, and that's fine, but can you still honestly say that you don't see how anyone can appreciate this at all? Instead of plain buildings you have these amazing pieces of artwork that make for very scenic walks and cool pictures. It adds a lot of character and brings the public streets to life with these vibrant colorful images.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,308,027 times
Reputation: 1826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Sorry but you don't own the definition of grittiness and you don't get to choose which aspects of it you like and make that the definition. You have to take the good with the bad. Grittiness does include what I referenced. The graffiti talk is cute but as I said - that by itself is not grittiness.
You do not own the definition of grittiness either, and Iíve never known anyone to define grittiness as homeless people defacating in public. Iím going to disagree and say that grittiness does not have anything to do with human feces, and I donít think this is what OP had in mind either when creating this thread.

Though maybe I am wrong and OP wants us to explain the appeal of scatology instead, but I doubt it. But if that is the case then I have the wrong thread.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,512 posts, read 2,973,275 times
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In defense of BlueFox, many areas that are authentically gritty do attract a certain element, with homelessness certainly a part of that. Not gentrified ďpretendĒ gritty, but actual trash on the streets, screaming out loud, **** in the air gritty. These areas in major cities are older, lower class, perhaps industrial in nature, or formerly industrial. While grit is not synonymous with class, itís naive to believe thereís no correlation there. Most gentrified areas in formerly dense, dilapidated and/or industrial areas want to maintain the appearance of grit, but as time marches on, it becomes nearly impossible, as too much money is poured into the area. Then, it just becomes a nice, dense area that isnít ďloudĒ, suburban or tacky in nature, but isnít truly gritty-perhaps just older in character (see much of Lower Manhattan). Northern Liberties in Philly is dense, repurposed and has an ďedgeĒ to it, but I wouldnít view it as a truly gritty area anymore. Not when put up against some of the other areas of the city. Just my two cents, but truly gritty areas donít tend to be nice places to live or look at during certain hours of the day.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,308,027 times
Reputation: 1826
Default 5 Pointz

I had to make a separate post just for 5 Pointz. 5 Pointz was an abandoned industrial building in Queens that became a mecca for graffiti artists all around the world! I could not pick just one picture to represent 5 Pointz so here is a quick link to the Google image search page:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Five...w=1366&bih=662

The 7 train (elevated subway) used to ride right by there and get amazing views of the site. It used to be my favorite NYC subway train growing up as a kid. Sadly, 5 pointz was demolished in 2015 in order to build more luxury highrise buildings.

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/5/25/1568...ior-renderings

5 Pointz was gritty, this new building is/will be luxorious/clean/polished and whatever, but I much prefer the former. I think it was a huge mistake to tear it down. It actually saddens me a little to think about it. This is an example of how "new and clean" isn't always better than older and gritty IMO. This part of Queens lost a famous landmark and a lot of character just to make room for yet another generic glass luxury condo tower for rich people to displace more residents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92 View Post
Grit is an impossible characteristic to capture, once you reach the point where you are trying to "protect it" you have lost what made it in the first place. You can certainly maintain the aesthetic of grit if you like, but then thats fundamentally no different from maintaining the "fakeness" of aesthetics in suburbia.


I say all of this as someone who likes the aesthetics, even much of the "maintained" grittiness.
This is true and very well said, but I still think it was a tragedy that we lost 5 pointz. As much as I wish it could have been protected, you are right.
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Old 10-21-2017, 01:26 PM
 
1,790 posts, read 1,139,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
I have been to Hoboken a couple of times, it DIDN'T seem overly "gritty" to me, densely populated, yes, "gritty", no.
Right - because it was a dump back in the 1980s. Now it's "cupcakeville" yuppified central.

Doesn't take much for Hoboken's true colors to show. When it downpours the sewers literally overflow into the streets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Buster View Post
Its not a millenial thing but they might like to claim it. This kind of thing in the modern era, started long ago even in the 70s and 80s in places like New York as you mention. and I think probably even before that somewhat in the beatnik era of the 1950s, artists would live in rundown areas because they were cheap. they were also called hipsters.
Absolutely agree with this. Millennial's like to take credit for it because of their respective strides in Brooklyn, Echo Park (L.A.), Portland (PDX), etc.

Historically, my old neighborhood in Denver was an example of what you mentioned. Capitol Hill was beatnik central in the 1950s-1960s. Now it's full of pretentious millennial trash.
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