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Old 10-21-2017, 02:16 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,571,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
You do not own the definition of grittiness either, and I’ve never known anyone to define grittiness as homeless people defacating in public. I’m going to disagree and say that grittiness does not have anything to do with human feces, and I don’t think this is what OP had in mind either when creating this thread.

Though maybe I am wrong and OP wants us to explain the appeal of scatology instead, but I doubt it. But if that is the case then I have the wrong thread.
I went to Bushwick for the first time during daylight yesterday and it was awesome, there's so much street art!

I agree that while it might not be for everyone, the is obvious.

I agree with your definition of grit too, things like old brick buildings, street art, a general urban vibe as opposed to suburban sprawl or shiny new buildings. Like you said, it is not about homeless guys taking dumps in the street.
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Old 10-21-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,111 posts, read 1,304,477 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder View Post
In defense of BlueFox, many areas that are authentically gritty do attract a certain element, with homelessness certainly a part of that. Not gentrified “pretend” gritty, but actual trash on the streets, screaming out loud, **** in the air gritty. These areas in major cities are older, lower class, perhaps industrial in nature, or formerly industrial. While grit is not synonymous with class, it’s naive to believe there’s no correlation there. Most gentrified areas in formerly dense, dilapidated and/or industrial areas want to maintain the appearance of grit, but as time marches on, it becomes nearly impossible, as too much money is poured into the area. Then, it just becomes a nice, dense area that isn’t “loud”, suburban or tacky in nature, but isn’t truly gritty-perhaps just older in character (see much of Lower Manhattan). Northern Liberties in Philly is dense, repurposed and has an “edge” to it, but I wouldn’t view it as a truly gritty area anymore. Not when put up against some of the other areas of the city. Just my two cents, but truly gritty areas don’t tend to be nice places to live or look at during certain hours of the day.
I respectfully disagree. I notice no correlation between homeless people around and gritty areas. I see more homeless people in even the classier parts of Manhattan than I do in Williamsburg/Bushwick. Many stick to touristy areas since they are easier to get money from. And many stick to the busier parts of the CBD since more people walking by = more potential donators.

I do also think it is possible for a rundown neighborhood to make a comeback financially and stay gritty. I know that historically, grittiness was synonymous with urban decay, which of course was associated with crime and poverty. IMO I think things have changed and those things are not a package deal anymore. Bushwick is not necessarily cheap anymore, but there’s no denying it is very gritty. Possibly the grittiest neighborhood in NYC right now. There’s also all the warehouses which are converted into new types of buildings (bars, clubs, commercial, etc.) but still retain their warehouse-looking exterior like Output or House of Yes.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7221...2!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7068...7i13312!8i6656

I also think that the elevated subways like the JMZ in Brooklyn and the 7 + NW in Queens look very gritty and will continue to do so no matter how much Williamsburg, Bushwick, Long Island City, and Astoria gentrify.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7086...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7661...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7496...7i13312!8i6656

Basically I’m saying that it is possible to retain some gritty character even after a formerly declined area “gentrifies” (for lack of better word)
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:19 PM
 
2,164 posts, read 1,459,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N610DL View Post
Right - because it was a dump back in the 1980s. Now it's "cupcakeville" yuppified central.

Doesn't take much for Hoboken's true colors to show. When it downpours the sewers literally overflow into the streets.



Absolutely agree with this. Millennial's like to take credit for it because of their respective strides in Brooklyn, Echo Park (L.A.), Portland (PDX), etc.

Historically, my old neighborhood in Denver was an example of what you mentioned. Capitol Hill was beatnik central in the 1950s-1960s. Now it's full of pretentious millennial trash.
Right, Brooklyn has really transformed and I believe that really got major traction in the late 90s, early 2000s so it would be more a GenXer thing there. Not sure about Echo Park or Portland but I assume that was a bit later.
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,534 posts, read 52,626,787 times
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The appeal?

Well, everyone is allowed to like what they like.

I don't like it. But that doesn't make me right or wrong.
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,362,170 times
Reputation: 8281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
No it doesn’t.
Well then provide me with a categorical definition of grittiness and explain why my example doesn't fit into that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
You do not own the definition of grittiness either, and I’ve never known anyone to define grittiness as homeless people defacating in public. I’m going to disagree and say that grittiness does not have anything to do with human feces, and I don’t think this is what OP had in mind either when creating this thread.

Though maybe I am wrong and OP wants us to explain the appeal of scatology instead, but I doubt it. But if that is the case then I have the wrong thread.
I don't purport to own the definition of grittiness. You were the one who said my example didn't count.

Take SF for example. What are most people going to characterize as the "gritty" area? Pacific Heights? Cow Hollow? No. It's the Tenderloin. In LA? Skid Row. Seattle? Probably Pioneer Square or maybe some of the southern neighborhoods. These areas are characterized by the people who inhabit them, probably more so than the physical appearance of the neighborhood itself. I think of dirt, grime, trash, and unsavory characters when I think of "grittiness". Why you think this has nothing to do with grittiness defies my logic. If these areas aren't gritty then what adjective would you ascribe to them?
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:42 PM
 
56,515 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Well then provide me with a categorical definition of grittiness and explain why my example doesn't fit into that.



I don't purport to own the definition of grittiness. You were the one who said my example didn't count.

Take SF for example. What are most people going to characterize as the "gritty" area? Pacific Heights? Cow Hollow? No. It's the Tenderloin. In LA? Skid Row. Seattle? Probably Pioneer Square or maybe some of the southern neighborhoods. These areas are characterized by the people who inhabit them, probably more so than the physical appearance of the neighborhood itself. I think of dirt, grime, trash, and unsavory characters when I think of "grittiness". Why you think this has nothing to do with grittiness defies my logic. If these areas aren't gritty then what adjective would you ascribe to them?
Other posters already gave an explanation of what I was referring to.

There views in this post could be viewed as being gritty in terms of architectural character and in terms of not being sterile or completely polished: http://www.city-data.com/forum/49891822-post248.html
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:08 PM
 
Location: South Park, San Diego
4,934 posts, read 7,589,851 times
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I absolutely demand a bit of grittiness in cities that I love. It isn’t so much that I love that part of a city, rather it is that a city that has a some gritty parts makes it a more authentic city, with history and change.

We just came back from a vacation in Baltimore and Pittsburgh, both cities known for their grittiness but both are also known by those that reside in as well as explore them as delightful cities that are distinctly better because of their gritty sides juxtaposed with their polished ones.

Last edited by T. Damon; 10-22-2017 at 12:08 AM..
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:09 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
6,015 posts, read 6,362,170 times
Reputation: 8281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Other posters already gave an explanation of what I was referring to.

There views in this post could be viewed as being gritty in terms of architectural character and in terms of not being sterile or completely polished: http://www.city-data.com/forum/49891822-post248.html
Ah, I see. So gritty means having at least one bombed out structure in the vicinity of a trendy coffee shop. The edge of gentrification, where hipsters can feel glorious as urban pioneers, paving the way for future generations of chai-sipping artsy farts. How could I be so naive.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
335 posts, read 303,229 times
Reputation: 394
I prefer gritty cities (Northeastern or Rust Belt cities) because with that "grit" comes character and a lot of history.


I think a city with brick and concrete buildings, revitalized factories/warehouses and other "gritty" elements has a lot more character than a city with glass building after glass building. When I walk through Cleveland, Pittsburgh or even my hometown of Erie, PA, I can see and feel the history that happened there through the architecture. The same can't be said for places like Phoenix, Atlanta or Charlotte--- which are all great places I am happy to have traveled to. Just my opinion.
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:28 PM
 
56,515 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
Ah, I see. So gritty means having at least one bombed out structure in the vicinity of a trendy coffee shop. The edge of gentrification, where hipsters can feel glorious as urban pioneers, paving the way for future generations of chai-sipping artsy farts. How could I be so naive.
No, that's not it...Other posts are touching on the subject.
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