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Old 10-22-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, Commonwealth of Virginia
1,609 posts, read 1,111,850 times
Reputation: 1908

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I hate the hyper-commercialized developer-class eyesores that are being built now, where every new condo project is some derivative of the same design.

Here's a building in Toronto:


https://image.slidesharecdn.com/broc...?cb=1465264443

Oh wow, I've never seen that design before! It's only literally the same design that's being mass produced everywhere else. But we're supposed to be forcefed the idea that the eyesore above + a Starbucks and a Whole Foods equals progress? I'm supposed to feel a sense of happiness walking through block after block of the same building design?

Soon you wind up like Vancouver, where you shell out $4,000 a month to live in an apartment that feels like a 21st century Commieblock.

Here's your squeaky clean Vancouver:

http://yourvancouverrealestate.ca/im...Linksvayer.jpg

I would die living there.

So yes, you can have clean cities full of hipsters. They're also full of cookie-cutter architecture and feel completely fake.

That's where grittiness comes from. Grittiness can't be manufactured. It doesn't come from corporate. It's can't be focus-tested to death.

Grittiness is the natural byproduct of a city being a city. It's the feeling of a place being lived in. I want to live somewhere where I know that things happened.

I was in Baltimore yesterday and loved neighborhood-hopping. From Fell's Point to Mount Vernon to Inner Harbor, I felt like these buildings symbolized things. They symbolized industrialization, the rise of American shipping, the rise of philanthropy, the spread of Methodism, the change of architectural styles from colonial to beaux arts to art deco to modern. The neighborhoods didn't just have chain stores and endless cafes but tattoo parlors and old laundromats with old ladies hauling clothes.

There was also blight, poverty and boarded-up windows. There's a story to tell there as well.

But, in the end, I loved Baltimore because I could sink my teeth into it. It felt real, it felt raw, it felt like a place with a story to tell. It also felt like a city proud of its history, all warts and all. I hate the thinking that cities have to be like Subaru commercials - flashy, modern, forward-thinking. The greatest cities in the world today embrace their history - London, Paris, Rome, New York even.

It's a shame so many people today want to live in assembly line town centers in giant apartment buildings the size of neighborhood blocks that where designed by Bjarke Ingals after a vomit-filled bender.

Look at the flashy "modern" architecture of Saint Louis in the 1960s and 1970s. It's repulsive ugly and decaying.

Now look at Mount Vernon in Baltimore. Two hundred years later and it feels timeless. Georgetown, DC, is 350+ years old and looks timeless.

In 100 years, those old buildings in Baltimore will still look great. And places like Mississauga will look like Chernobyl.

That's why I like grittiness. You can't manufacture authenticity.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,866 posts, read 7,817,078 times
Reputation: 9497
Quote:
Originally Posted by westbymidwest View Post
I think some individuals who bemoan gentrification or prefer grittiness do so because they lived in 'rougher' environments during their youth/early adulthood and now that they are older they long to return to such times. As a result, they overlook factors like crime/poverty/etc, though I suspect many of them would sing a different tune were they born later.
Nah. Itís the millennials who are flocking to the gritty parts of town. Not the boomers.

This two minute video does a pretty good job of illustrating what constitutes a gritty neighborhood and who is migrating to them:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VFwI9QfJY
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:49 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,608,386 times
Reputation: 6091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Nah. It’s the millennials who are flocking to the gritty parts of town. Not the boomers.

This two minute video does a pretty good job of illustrating what constitutes a gritty neighborhood and who is migrating to them:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VFwI9QfJY
That neighborhood reminds me of Bushwick

Last edited by l1995; 10-22-2017 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
47 posts, read 36,942 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
...

It's a shame so many people today want to live in assembly line town centers in giant apartment buildings the size of neighborhood blocks that where designed by Bjarke Ingals after a vomit-filled bender.
This depends entirely on what is being replaced.

Old buildings with historic/cultural significance? By all means, preserve and repurpose them as needed.

But I will happily take a cookie-cutter apartment complex with a Whole Foods and a Starbucks over an unremarkable, deteriorating residential building surrounded by a payday loan center and a liquor store. Just because a building is old does not afford it historical significance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Nah. It’s the millennials who are flocking to the gritty parts of town. Not the boomers.

This two minute video does a pretty good job of illustrating what constitutes a gritty neighborhood and who is migrating to them:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VFwI9QfJY
I was mostly referring to CD posters who bemoan gentrification. I am a millennial living in a somewhat 'gritty' neighborhood (albeit one experiencing rapid gentrification).

You are confusing hipness/trendiness with grittiness. Most millennials don't have any desire to live in a gritty/rundown neighborhood until it begins to gentrify and become trendy. The initial 'trendsetters' that move to un-gentrified areas do so primarily because of the lower rents. Some may indeed wish to live somewhere truly gritty, but they are not the majority.

The neighborhood in that video doesn't look very gritty to me. It looks like a former industrial area that has undergone significant gentrification. It was likely quite gritty at one point, but that aspect of it diminishes with each new loft or cafe that opens up. It's emerging popularity is a byproduct of this gentrification. Eventually it will completely gentrify and any past grittiness will be non-existent, aside from a few older buildings and graffiti (which are among the weakest components of 'grittiness' IMO).

edit: A lot of millennials claim to desire 'grittiness', but what they really want is a gentrifying/gentrified neighborhood with a semblance of 'grittiness'. Take a place like South Central LA; unquestionably gritty, but hardly anyone is moving there for that reason. I expect that will change once a few artisanal coffee roasters and cocktail bars show up.

Last edited by westbymidwest; 10-22-2017 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,965 posts, read 1,460,948 times
Reputation: 2172
Well, I definitely have a new perspective of "graffiti art", some of it quite beautiful and ABSENT of profanity! Thanks for sharing. You learn something new everyday! ;0)
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,866 posts, read 7,817,078 times
Reputation: 9497
Quote:
Originally Posted by westbymidwest View Post
The neighborhood in that video doesn't look very gritty to me.
Spend a lot of time in Philly, do ya?
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
2,871 posts, read 1,267,126 times
Reputation: 6473
Quote:
Originally Posted by jFug View Post
I prefer gritty cities (Northeastern or Rust Belt cities) because with that "grit" comes character and a lot of history.


I think a city with brick and concrete buildings, revitalized factories/warehouses and other "gritty" elements has a lot more character than a city with glass building after glass building. When I walk through Cleveland, Pittsburgh or even my hometown of Erie, PA, I can see and feel the history that happened there through the architecture. The same can't be said for places like Phoenix, Atlanta or Charlotte--- which are all great places I am happy to have traveled to. Just my opinion.
^^^This.

Gritty cities have character and a lot of original architecture. There's often a lot of the mom-n-pop stores and small businesses present as well.

The shiny newer cities tend to have cookie-cutter designs and the history just isn't there.

I prefer gritty cities but there is nothing wrong with those who prefer the more modern-looking cities.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,866 posts, read 7,817,078 times
Reputation: 9497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Well, I definitely have a new perspective of "graffiti art", some of it quite beautiful and ABSENT of profanity! Thanks for sharing. You learn something new everyday! ;0)
Philly launched a mural arts project 30 years ago with the intent of discouraging graffiti. Instead, it channels that energy into one of artistic expression that gratifies the artist and gives the general public something much more interesting to look at than tagging and f-bombs. The program has blossomed into a pretty big deal here, with over 3600 murals painted, over 2000 or so visible today. Hereís more than youíll ever want to know about it: https://www.muralarts.org/artworks/
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:50 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,608,386 times
Reputation: 6091
Quote:
Originally Posted by westbymidwest View Post
This depends entirely on what is being replaced.

Old buildings with historic/cultural significance? By all means, preserve and repurpose them as needed.

But I will happily take a cookie-cutter apartment complex with a Whole Foods and a Starbucks over an unremarkable, deteriorating residential building surrounded by a payday loan center and a liquor store. Just because a building is old does not afford it historical significance.




I was mostly referring to CD posters who bemoan gentrification. I am a millennial living in a somewhat 'gritty' neighborhood (albeit one experiencing rapid gentrification).

You are confusing hipness/trendiness with grittiness. Most millennials don't have any desire to live in a gritty/rundown neighborhood until it begins to gentrify and become trendy. The initial 'trendsetters' that move to un-gentrified areas do so primarily because of the lower rents. Some may indeed wish to live somewhere truly gritty, but they are not the majority.

The neighborhood in that video doesn't look very gritty to me. It looks like a former industrial area that has undergone significant gentrification. It was likely quite gritty at one point, but that aspect of it diminishes with each new loft or cafe that opens up. It's emerging popularity is a byproduct of this gentrification. Eventually it will completely gentrify and any past grittiness will be non-existent, aside from a few older buildings and graffiti (which are among the weakest components of 'grittiness' IMO).

edit: A lot of millennials claim to desire 'grittiness', but what they really want is a gentrifying/gentrified neighborhood with a semblance of 'grittiness'. Take a place like South Central LA; unquestionably gritty, but hardly anyone is moving there for that reason. I expect that will change once a few artisanal coffee roasters and cocktail bars show up.
South Central LA is actually not particularly gritty, it's suburban in layout

You seem to be confusing high crime with gritty

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9855...7i13312!8i6656

It looks like it has a "slightly run down suburb" kind of vibe to it, not the grittiness discussed in this thread that you see in NYC, Philly, Baltimore, etc.
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Old 10-22-2017, 08:16 PM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,608,386 times
Reputation: 6091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Iím confused. Does someone think that street view is gritty?
That poster thinks that neighborhood is undeniably gritty, I disagree
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