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Old 10-30-2017, 09:23 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
2,139 posts, read 1,432,008 times
Reputation: 1609

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What are some Cities that have that urban makeup for a Subway system/HRT but instead opted or got suck with Light rail transit. I can think of a few of these but my number 1 would be Houston, TX. For a city its size they should have gone the HRT route..
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,309,145 times
Reputation: 1831
San Francisco. I know they have that little bit of BART but it’s just one short line in SF and that’s not enough. It functions more like a commuter rail than for getting around SF itself. I think MUNI should’ve been heavy rail. They have the density to support it.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:45 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,470 posts, read 25,420,814 times
Reputation: 8936
Los Angeles. It’s HRT system is way too small. The city is way too big for mostly light rail, especially the way they build a lot of the lines with too many at-grade crossings and running down the street even in downtown.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:00 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
2,139 posts, read 1,432,008 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
San Francisco. I know they have that little bit of BART but itís just one short line in SF and thatís not enough. It functions more like a commuter rail than for getting around SF itself. I think MUNI shouldíve been heavy rail. They have the density to support it.
I totally agree and notice that as well when I was in the Bay Area. Rode the Caltran to DT San Francisco, then took Bart over to DT Oakland and seems as though most of BART is ran over on the Oakland side of things, at least that was my perception. Muni light rail seem to dominate San fran.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:04 AM
 
Location: DFW
6,800 posts, read 11,774,932 times
Reputation: 5149
What about Dallas? They're even proposing a subway: https://www.dallasnews.com/news/tran...roposed-routes
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Terramaria
774 posts, read 842,180 times
Reputation: 910
San Diego

At this point, SD isn't quite dense enough to really support it, but it certainly will be building upward and more smartly instead of outward from this point forward, as it remains a popular city for growth. It has a large section of the city with grids and/or development, and in addition to simply moving existing lines underground, have another line head north along the westside of Balboa Park, through Hillcrest, turn east through University Heights, and then emerge from its tunnel along the hillside in Mission Valley and and then connect with the Green Line in Mission Valley, have a transfer with the Green Line, and then end around Sharp Memorial Hospital.

Denver

This city is still not quite dense enough like SD, but it also has an extensive grid systems with the potential for TOD development. Simply make Colfax Ave the primary East-West line with a bend toward DIA, Broadway/Washington Boulevard the main North-South line, with a third line a diagonal from Centennial to Broomfield )


Seattle

Possibly the densest city without a subway line, imagine a large Tacoma to Everett N-S line, another parallel N-S line over the eastern suburbs from Alderwood (where it connects with the N-S main line), through Kirkland to Bellevue through Renton before joining the "main line" by SeaTac, along with a shorter East-West line that starts in West Seattle, turns north towards downtown where it parallels the "main line by several blocks, turns east at Capitol Hill and then crosses Lake Washington just below the 520 bridge, goes through Bellevue, and finishes up just east of Redmond

Baltimore*

Since San Francisco was mentioned and since that city has a heavy rail subway line like Baltimore, I'll make a case for it too. Of course, the "red line" proposal fell through, but simply but, similar to how SF's Muni heads underground in its downtown portion, so should have Baltimore's Light Rail, which should increase to three trains and of course save a lot of time from stopping at traffic lights, and of course would have made the city's once premiere retail street more attractive, and it also should have turned a couple blocks east by Camden Yards and then head up Charles St. as that is closer to the center of the downtown and "midtown" (Mt. Vernon, Belvedere, and Station North) action, along with offering a direct transfer to the Metro at Charles Center instead of an awkward one at Lexington Market, plus it would avoid a spur branch to Penn Station, and then it could have emerged from its tunnel and turned northwestward just past the station (similar to Washington, DC's Red Line right after Union Station) where it would connect with the current system. However, I would then turn it east for Towson where the track meets up with Bellona Ave. after the Falls Rd. station, move it underground shortly before it crosses Charles St. again with stations near the medical center and University and another at Towson Town Center (both underground), then emerging it above ground once again right before the present-day Lutherville station. However, I would have instead made the other two lines by forming an X pattern, with the first one as it is from Owings Mills to Charles Center, and then turn it southeast with stops near the aquarium, Harbor East/Little Italy, Fells Point, Canton, and then the train emerges from its tunnel with two more in Point Breeze and Dundalk near the ports. The other diagonal of the "X" (my version of the Red Line) would start near Ellicott City, giving Howard County easy access to the system (short tunnels would accommodate the hilly terrain), then a stop in Catonsville, Edmondson Village, West Baltimore (near the MARC station), UMD at Baltimore, have downtown transfer stations with the "Green Line" at Lexington Market and another at "Cathedral Hill" at Charles/Saratoga streets, followed by Jonestown stop on the east edge of downtown a few blocks north of the Shot Tower stop, then on to Johns Hopkins Hospital, then up N Gay St/Belair road for several stops up to the Beltway to serve the Northeast side of the city, then turns east for one final stop at White Marsh.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:28 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 834,204 times
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Boston - The Green Line before it gets downtown it has to stop at red lights.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,122 posts, read 1,309,145 times
Reputation: 1831
I was also going to say Seattle. Seattle voters actually rejected Federal funding to build a heavy rail subway in Seattle back in the 70s, and now since that city is booming they are investing so much time and money just for a light rail. So clearly that was a huge mistake.

And the dumbest part about this is that Federal funds were going to pay for it, so why turn it down...?
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:34 PM
 
Location: ATLANTA
2,139 posts, read 1,432,008 times
Reputation: 1609
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
I was also going to say Seattle. Seattle voters actually rejected Federal funding to build a heavy rail subway in Seattle back in the 70s, and now since that city is booming they are investing so much time and money just for a light rail. So clearly that was a huge mistake.

And the dumbest part about this is that Federal funds were going to pay for it, so why turn it down...?
That's right, if I'm not mistaken that Money went to Atlanta instead, correct me if I'm wrong.. Looks like Seattle's loss became Atlanta's gain and helped it become the Metro it is Today.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:39 PM
 
61 posts, read 45,248 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borntoolate85 View Post
San Diego

At this point, SD isn't quite dense enough to really support it, but it certainly will be building upward and more smartly instead of outward from this point forward, as it remains a popular city for growth. It has a large section of the city with grids and/or development, and in addition to simply moving existing lines underground, have another line head north along the westside of Balboa Park, through Hillcrest, turn east through University Heights, and then emerge from its tunnel along the hillside in Mission Valley and and then connect with the Green Line in Mission Valley, have a transfer with the Green Line, and then end around Sharp Memorial Hospital.

Denver

This city is still not quite dense enough like SD, but it also has an extensive grid systems with the potential for TOD development. Simply make Colfax Ave the primary East-West line with a bend toward DIA, Broadway/Washington Boulevard the main North-South line, with a third line a diagonal from Centennial to Broomfield )


Seattle

Possibly the densest city without a subway line, imagine a large Tacoma to Everett N-S line, another parallel N-S line over the eastern suburbs from Alderwood (where it connects with the N-S main line), through Kirkland to Bellevue through Renton before joining the "main line" by SeaTac, along with a shorter East-West line that starts in West Seattle, turns north towards downtown where it parallels the "main line by several blocks, turns east at Capitol Hill and then crosses Lake Washington just below the 520 bridge, goes through Bellevue, and finishes up just east of Redmond

Baltimore*

Since San Francisco was mentioned and since that city has a heavy rail subway line like Baltimore, I'll make a case for it too. Of course, the "red line" proposal fell through, but simply but, similar to how SF's Muni heads underground in its downtown portion, so should have Baltimore's Light Rail, which should increase to three trains and of course save a lot of time from stopping at traffic lights, and of course would have made the city's once premiere retail street more attractive, and it also should have turned a couple blocks east by Camden Yards and then head up Charles St. as that is closer to the center of the downtown and "midtown" (Mt. Vernon, Belvedere, and Station North) action, along with offering a direct transfer to the Metro at Charles Center instead of an awkward one at Lexington Market, plus it would avoid a spur branch to Penn Station, and then it could have emerged from its tunnel and turned northwestward just past the station (similar to Washington, DC's Red Line right after Union Station) where it would connect with the current system. However, I would then turn it east for Towson where the track meets up with Bellona Ave. after the Falls Rd. station, move it underground shortly before it crosses Charles St. again with stations near the medical center and University and another at Towson Town Center (both underground), then emerging it above ground once again right before the present-day Lutherville station. However, I would have instead made the other two lines by forming an X pattern, with the first one as it is from Owings Mills to Charles Center, and then turn it southeast with stops near the aquarium, Harbor East/Little Italy, Fells Point, Canton, and then the train emerges from its tunnel with two more in Point Breeze and Dundalk near the ports. The other diagonal of the "X" (my version of the Red Line) would start near Ellicott City, giving Howard County easy access to the system (short tunnels would accommodate the hilly terrain), then a stop in Catonsville, Edmondson Village, West Baltimore (near the MARC station), UMD at Baltimore, have downtown transfer stations with the "Green Line" at Lexington Market and another at "Cathedral Hill" at Charles/Saratoga streets, followed by Jonestown stop on the east edge of downtown a few blocks north of the Shot Tower stop, then on to Johns Hopkins Hospital, then up N Gay St/Belair road for several stops up to the Beltway to serve the Northeast side of the city, then turns east for one final stop at White Marsh.

Seattle does have a subway through downtown and all the way up to Northgate. Underground light rail is still a subway. Link in particular will be almost entirely grade-separated once the 120-mile network is complete and it will cover all of the areas you mentioned and more: https://systemexpansion.soundtransit.org/
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