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Old 11-21-2017, 12:17 AM
 
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Democrat wasn't really synonymous with liberal as recently as the 90s. There used to be a lot of white Democrats who are not socially liberal, but supported the Democrat party because of economic reasons.

These people don't really exist anymore, as the GOP has done its Southern Strategy 2.0 in the years since Bill Clinton was president. A lot of the senate Seats Democrats lost in recent years were in places that Democrats really didn't stand a chance in no matter how strong the candidate was, like Arkansas. It will be interesting to see if Joe Manchin keeps his seat in WV, he is the most conservative Democrat in the entire senate, however he is not a Trump Republican so I wonder how much that will hurt him.

I think Democrats could do better in rural America if they took a softer stance on gun control.

This is why I don't get why Berniebros are obsessed with the term "neoliberal", the Democrat party is probably more liberal now than it ever was.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok....I don't think average drug abuser votes Republican b/c GOP tends to be tougher on drug crimes and crimes in general. And obviously sealing off the border is probably going to slow down illegal drug supply

Trump railed on drug abuse more than any political candidate that I can remember. So it is weird to see many on the left act like drug addicts are among his biggest fans.

I think Tenn is like every state, rich, middle class and poor people.
The areas with the biggest heroin/opiod epidemics tend to be in Trumpland.
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:39 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
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Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
The areas with the biggest heroin/opiod epidemics tend to be in Trumpland.
So why do you think heroin / opiod users were so eager to vote for Trump? And why is it important for you to point this out?

It is true that a majority of college educated white people voted for Trump.
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
So why do you think heroin / opiod users were so eager to vote for Trump? And why is it important for you to point this out?
They voted for Trump because they're conservative.

I only brought it up since we were talking about this exact topic.
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,592 posts, read 4,018,066 times
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Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Democrat wasn't really synonymous with liberal as recently as the 90s. There used to be a lot of white Democrats who are not socially liberal, but supported the Democrat party because of economic reasons.

These people don't really exist anymore, as the GOP has done its Southern Strategy 2.0 in the years since Bill Clinton was president. A lot of the senate Seats Democrats lost in recent years were in places that Democrats really didn't stand a chance in no matter how strong the candidate was, like Arkansas. It will be interesting to see if Joe Manchin keeps his seat in WV, he is the most conservative Democrat in the entire senate, however he is not a Trump Republican so I wonder how much that will hurt him.

I think Democrats could do better in rural America if they took a softer stance on gun control.

This is why I don't get why Berniebros are obsessed with the term "neoliberal", the Democrat party is probably more liberal now than it ever was.
There wasn't ever any Southern Strategy 1.0. It doesn't make any sense to argue white racists switched over to GOP with Nixon who was for civil rights, plus the GOP has never passed or pushed for any segregationist type policies.

The only segregationist in Congress that switched parties was Strom Thurmond.

No person in the south that voted for Clinton was socially conservative. The Clintons clearly were pro-choice.
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Old 11-21-2017, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,592 posts, read 4,018,066 times
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Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
They voted for Trump because they're conservative.

I only brought it up since we were talking about this exact topic.
What makes you think all or most drug addicts are conservative?

I would have thought drug abusers in general more likely to be liberal or libertarian than conservative.

I had never heard much about rural white drug addicts until Trump won. I didn't realize they were such a pivotal and reliable voting block.

Trump supposedly does not even drink alcohol so it is pretty interesting he could lock down the drug addict vote even with Gary Johnson in the race.
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,889,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
There wasn't ever any Southern Strategy 1.0. It doesn't make any sense to argue white racists switched over to GOP with Nixon who was for civil rights, plus the GOP has never passed or pushed for any segregationist type policies.

The only segregationist in Congress that switched parties was Strom Thurmond.

No person in the south that voted for Clinton was socially conservative. The Clintons clearly were pro-choice.
There was a Southern Strategy, and it was more about opposing the north than changing policy positions. The South/North divide is still fractured from the Civil War and might never heal. So the south never wants to support the same party that the north does, that's all it is
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
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I don't that it is true the south does things in reaction to what the north does. The north vs south thing is a mispresentation of history, because northern Democrats also supported slavery. Lincoln's Democratic opponent Stephen Douglas was from Illinois and he supported slavery. At the time, most of the Republicans were in the north, so that is how it became seen as north vs south but it reallly was a GOP vs Democratic thing.

Nixon won states in the north and west along with the Carolinas, VIrgnia, TN and Florida in 1968. He won states all over the country in 72. Reagan won every state but Minnesota, Mondale's home state in 1984.

This year, Trump won several states up north.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,623 posts, read 17,606,575 times
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Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
They voted for Trump because they're conservative.

I only brought it up since we were talking about this exact topic.
Exactly.

Like I mentioned earlier, I live in small town Tennessee. We're far, far more like Rust Belt Ohio than we are like Nashville or Knoxville.

A lot of these problems aren't necessarily political in nature. We're a heavy manufacturing area, and largely failed to diversify. Heavy industry has taken it on the chin all throughout the country over the past years and decades. Adjacent southwest Virginia was also dependent on mining. That's all but gone too. The only city in the area that is doing decently is Johnson City - it was never as dependent on heavy industry, and is the HQ of a major health system and a fairly large university.

Unless you're associated with the medical systems, government (including education), or the one F500 HQ, there is almost no decent employment here. Native born kids growing up basically have to move off to find work after college. What are you left with? A lower performing, lower achieving "underclass" that isn't equipped (and perhaps not even trainable) for the jobs of the future. Companies aren't going to locate in an area with a poorly skilled labor force. A poorly skilled labor force isn't going to generate businesses organically. This is a chicken-and-egg kind of deal where areas get caught in a tailspin.

A lot of people seem to turn to drugs when there isn't much hope that tomorrow will be better than today.

Not all red areas are like this. I lived in the most affluent city in Indiana for about three years. Jobs are plentiful. Wages are high. Schools are good. Everything this area isn't, but both are Republican.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Downtown Phoenix, AZ
18,927 posts, read 6,889,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I don't that it is true the south does things in reaction to what the north does. The north vs south thing is a mispresentation of history, because northern Democrats also supported slavery. Lincoln's Democratic opponent Stephen Douglas was from Illinois and he supported slavery. At the time, most of the Republicans were in the north, so that is how it became seen as north vs south but it reallly was a GOP vs Democratic thing.

Nixon won states in the north and west along with the Carolinas, VIrgnia, TN and Florida in 1968. He won states all over the country in 72. Reagan won every state but Minnesota, Mondale's home state in 1984.

This year, Trump won several states up north.
We're not talking presidential elections, but more state and local politics; as some presidents can be unifiers, but it's rare
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