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Old 12-06-2017, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906

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What evidence do you have that conservatives are bothered by people wanting to walk places? Are conservatives trying to ban walking?

It is weird that you are attempting to politicize walking.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
3,734 posts, read 3,847,195 times
Reputation: 3560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
You can have this kind of arrangement in Charleston and other southern cities. I'm not sure why you think this is only doable in NYC.

But unless a person works in retail, it is generally more difficult to live in walking distance of work. Good chance getting kids to school is going to be out of walking distance as well.
Being small in physical size, and walkable, dense, and compact are two different things.

Schools in NYC are generally within walking distance (I walked to my school), unless you go to specialized schools.

Aren't you the same person that argued that Charleston had the same amenities compared to NYC? You are either a very confused individual or deliberately obtuse.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gantz View Post

Aren't you the same person that argued that Charleston had the same amenities compared to NYC? You are either a very confused individual or deliberately obtuse.
You never explained what a person can do in NYC that they can't do in Charleston, other than unique tourist thing like go to the Statue of Liberty. Charleston has its own unique tourist stuff.

I don't think most people in the country see living in NYC as some kind of glamorous thing compared to other places. It is great that you like NYC but you seem to think everybody is like you.

I don't think you have much insight into Charleston. If I asked you what is the 'Main Street" in downtown Charleston, would you know.

There are a lot of people moving to southern cities from large northern cities and they love it down here.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-06-2017 at 03:18 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,100,189 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofnature View Post
Why are so many conservatives bothered by some people wanting to walk to places rather than drive?
Blue states are generally more transit-centric, more walkable, more urban. Red states tend to sprawl.

I think the way the US has grown can certainly tie back to politics to some varying degree, but tie precisely to US history. Urban cores that developed in the 18th and 19th century needed housing stock and transportation near industrial jobs. Those cities predominantly fell in the north with the exception of New Orleans. If you look at the post-industrial revolution population numbers, say circa 1850, NYC, Baltimore, Boston, and Philadelphia are going to be the largest cities in the US.

Once folks began to migrate to the US, and ultimately began dispersing west and south, the way cities were built changed in parallel with US industry. More farming, more oil, more commerce. There was simply no need for large, saturated urban development- Smaller cities and areas for conveniences were just fine.

Fast forward to today, and you see the lingering effects, North to South, East to West. Politically, places with an industrial past tend to be blue(unionism foothold). Red states tend to be those who fall south.

So, the dependence on vehicles is strongly tied to the history of an area, which subsequently and indirectly correlates with political viewpoints. Cause and effect.

That said, for you southerners who continue to push the narrative that the south is as walkable as the north, just know that you are factually incorrect. You are inherently wrong. your ancestors didn't value developed urban cores. And while the south is trying so very hard to come up with psuedo downtown areas, and mixed use districts... You can never, and will never be as walkable and convenient as Boston or NYC.That's not your strong suit.

Focus on things you do well, like weather, and local food, and cheap cost of living.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
I would say some liberals tend to be anti-car. I don't think conservatives are 'anti-walking'.

I would say the massive northern cities have more sprawl. I don't understand how smaller metros can have more sprawl. The larger metros have a much larger footprint.

And there is goes again, you mention transit-oriented as evidence of more walkable. Using mass transit isn't walking. It is an alternative to driving. In my view you are not in a walkable situation if you are forced to use mass transit to go places.

I haven't been saying that southern cities have mass transit that exists in some northern cities. There is no need or demand for it here.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-06-2017 at 03:30 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,100,189 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I would say some liberals tend to be anti-car. I don't think conservatives are 'anti-walking'.

I would say the massive northern cities have more sprawl. I don't understand how smaller metros can have more sprawl.

And there is goes again, you mention transit-oriented as evidence of more walkable. Using mass transit isn't walking. It is an alternative to driving.

I haven't been saying that southern cities have mass transit that exists in some northern cities. There is no need or demand for it here.
Do you not understand the unique need for walkability when you rely on mass transit/no car? It CANT be this hard to understand.

Good lord help this country.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Do you not understand the unique need for walkability when you rely on mass transit/no car? It CANT be this hard to understand.

Good lord help this country.
How is the need for walkability different if you rely on mass transit vs car?

To me, as a person who takes things literally, it seems funny to use the word walkability when a person is talking about mass transit access, because you aren't walking if you use mass transit. It is an alternative to walking.

Why do you think this is such an important topic? I think the country will survive my opinion about walkability.

I know there are people, including young liberals, who like living in downtown areas in the south because of walkability.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,100,189 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
How is the need for walkability different if you rely on mass transit vs car?

Why do you think this is such an important topic?
Where do you park your car? At your house.

How do you get to a train? You walk.

As a store owner, in an area where folks drive, I focus on easy access via car. Aka, I put my store where it's conveniently located on major roads.

If it's in an urban core, where people don't rely on car, I put the FRICKING STORE WHERE PEOPLE WALK. And where is it that people frequently walk, you ask? NEAR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

You cant possibly be older than 15. It's a Christmas miracle if you've lived any longer with your inability to digest information and string together logical thought.
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,994,519 times
Reputation: 2906
Generally when you park, you have to walk somewhere at the end of it. It is no different from getting off a train.

Locating your store near a public transportation station doesn't in my view have anything to do with walkability. That is like saying a parking lot or garage near a store is related to walkability. That is a customer convenience thing based on mode of (non-walking) transportation of the majority of the customers.

In my view, being able to access a mode of transportation, a car, in your driveway after a brief walk rather than having to walk a relative long distance to a train station is actually evidence of higher walkability. Walkability is about convenience in my view.

In the south, it is pretty easy to live within walking distance a grocery store, a few restaurants, some retail stores, perhaps a sports bar, while also being with short driving distance of your company's office, other restaurants, malls, etc.

When I first moved back to Greenville a few years ago, I lived in a condo next to a Publix grocery store that has other stuff around including an ice cream shop and sports bar. One of the largest malls in the state is 2 minutes away from here. My employer was near the mall. Downtown is easy 10 minute drive down the interstate. Golf courses in several directions, 5-15 minute drive depending on which one. Great fitness center with tennis courts, 5 minute drive.

I'm not sure if some people up north are aware of how easy and quick it is to get around by car down south.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-06-2017 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:51 PM
 
1,290 posts, read 1,199,293 times
Reputation: 3030
I did a comparison of 2 specific houses I have lived in (1 in Buffalo 14216 and 1 in Houston 77006), both considered "somewhat walkable" by Walk Score. I actually took the time to count nearby amenities within 15 minutes, or about 3/4 mile. I did not include places such as auto dealers,gas stations, or car repair. If anything, the results show that Walk Score is not a great indicator when comparing specific properties.

Houston house:
Neighborhood density 9376 per square mile
Walk Score 66
Businesses within .75 mi - 31

Buffalo house:
Neighborhood density 8189 per square mile
Walk Score 61
Businesses within .75 mi - 158

Of the 31 businesses in Houston, 18 are bars/restaurants/takeout. 23 are located on 1 street (Richmond) which has missing, damaged, and cobblestone sidewalks that cannot be used by handicapped or strollers.

Of the 158 businesses in Buffalo, there are several types that are not among the 31 in Houston including: 9 doctor/medical services, 2 day care, 3 bakeries, 4 candy shops, and 2 pharmacies. There were also 54 retail shops (compared with 2 in Houston), 8 small grocers (compared with 1), 17 hair/spas (compared with 2).

Houston did have more small parks (2 vs 1) but Buffalo's park has an enclosed ice rink vs Houston's baseball and soccer field. Buffalo also had 8 houses of worship for 7 denominations.

In both cities, there are also multiple additional businesses and amenities just beyond the .75 miles, but if anything the relative differences would increase as adjacent areas not counted include a great amount of retail on Delaware in Kenmore or south of Hertel, no retail on Elmwood, or anything east of North Park.

This is only a snapshot of 2 specific homes, but it does show that even with a higher walk Score the southern city had much much less to actually walk to, and terrible sidewalks to walk on.

Last edited by RocketSci; 12-06-2017 at 04:01 PM..
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