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Old 12-06-2017, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,099,257 times
Reputation: 1846

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I'm not sure if some people up north are aware of how easy and quick it is to get around by car down south.
Right. Great place to drive. Not to walk. Which is exactly why this thread exists.

Because you can't grasp the logic, here you go:

https://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/
https://smartasset.com/mortgage/best...transportation

See any trends? Some potential commonalities? Maybe that within these lists, walkability and public transportation go hand in hand? Or do you think that's just coincidence. Within that first link, they rank walkability and transportation, and they even tell you what criteria it's based on.

Please please please THINK before you respond. For the sake of Greenville.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,992,169 times
Reputation: 2906
Cars are transportation, same as mass transportation. If you use transportation, you aren't walking.

It doesn't make any sense to present mass transit as evidence of walkability.

You should come up with a new word for area conducive to using mass transit, like mass transitiability.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-06-2017 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,099,257 times
Reputation: 1846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Cars are transportation, same as mass transportation. If you use transportation, you aren't walking.

It doesn't make any sense to present mass transit as evidence of walkability.
But you do acknowledge that there is a clear and factual, data driven link between the two based on the list I just gave you.

You may think the two are unrelated, but you at the very least acknowledge that the lists have the cities most highly ranked in public transportation also listed as the most walkable.

Tell me you can read the lists?

Man are you digging yourself a nice hole in this argument....
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,581 posts, read 3,992,169 times
Reputation: 2906
The lists are done by people using your subjective definition of walkability that includes mass transit.

I'm disagreeing with their definition because it doesn't make sense to use an alternative to walking as a measure of walkability.

ANd if I can get to my car in a fraction of the time a person can walk to a train station, isn't my situation more walkable. It is certainly more convenient. If walkability isn't about convenience, what is the point of talking about it.

As I've pointed out, a college campus in a college town is a perfect example of walkability, and there is no need to ride a train or bus if you live on campus.

There is no disagreement that the north is better for mass transit if you are a fan of riding a bus or train. That is a separate thing.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 12-06-2017 at 05:02 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
2,082 posts, read 1,099,257 times
Reputation: 1846
Walkability is not always more convenient.

Maybe that's your confusion?

You may be able to drive to more stores in the time it takes me to walk to the same amount of stores. It doesn't make your situation more walkable.

If I can walk to more stores than you, then my situation is more walkable.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,133 posts, read 32,118,924 times
Reputation: 19668
The whole topic of "walkability" is just ripe for redefinition. If I live next to big box stores and good places to eat I can walk to, doesn't that qualify? Many seem to think it only counts if it's small shops and eateries with no big streets to cross.


If you throw out the artsy, cuteness factor there are many areas that qualify. I rode to work for 2 years without driving. I walked to the store down the street for groceries. I think what qualifies TO ME is not having a car and being able to do everything I need to do with an occasional uber or bike ride that isn't just exercise.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:13 PM
 
2,504 posts, read 2,262,328 times
Reputation: 1820
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The whole topic of "walkability" is just ripe for redefinition. If I live next to big box stores and good places to eat I can walk to, doesn't that qualify? Many seem to think it only counts if it's small shops and eateries with no big streets to cross.


If you throw out the artsy, cuteness factor there are many areas that qualify. I rode to work for 2 years without driving. I walked to the store down the street for groceries. I think what qualifies TO ME is not having a car and being able to do everything I need to do with an occasional uber or bike ride that isn't just exercise.
Many people have already noted that the abundance of amenities within a walkable distance is key to the "urban dictionary" definition of walk"ability. Anyone that lives in the burbs that has a grocery store next door can walk to it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Soda City
516 posts, read 217,111 times
Reputation: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringSnow View Post
New Orleans and Charleston used to be some of the largest cities in the USA - both were in the top 5. To this day, they have very walkable areas, but the newer portions are definitely very suburban and not very walkable.

So to answer your question, the cities that are walkable are all built and developed before the automobile and usually achieved some critical size early on.
Mount Pleasant is extremely walkable. Everything is off US 17
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:21 PM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,804 posts, read 1,295,354 times
Reputation: 3204
Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy View Post
Yeah, thatís pretty much it. A lot of times in NYC, walking is the only feasible option. If somebody did even have a car, not only can you spend up to an hour or more looking for parking, when you finally do find parking you most likely will be many blocks away, and/or have to pay for an extremely overpriced spot at a parking garage.

Even though most of us donít have a choice of using a car or not, a lot of people here do love to walk and is one of the reasons we like it here. This is just part of living in a city that is built on the human scale and is not centered around this very American need for an automobile. Itís weird and unusual for Americans, but for many people in other parts of the world the reverse is true.
Yeah no disagreement here.

I think it is interesting if you look at Chicago which has one of the best public transit systems in the country (easy to live in without a car), and is among the most walkable/bikeable but has much lower (but still high) transit rate than NYC. Chicago is an easier city to drive in than NYC, Boston, DC or Philadelphia. To steal a phrase from Aaron Renn at the Manhattan Institute, it is sort of a "duck-billed platypus" of cities.

I wonder if it has reached an "Equilibrium of choice" of some sort that other cities have not. I know a few one car couples there, where in other places you either both have a car, or (for my friends in DC and NYC ) both do not. It isn't that I'm saying that New Yorkers don't enjoy the walk-able lifestyle, but I'm sure many of them sometimes wish they could hop in a car and go to Costco and load up for a week or two of groceries.

I know it was like that when I lived in Rome at least. People who loved living in the city and who didn't own a car sometimes dreamed of having one and avoiding the metro.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Downtown & Brooklyn!
2,110 posts, read 1,303,876 times
Reputation: 1825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92 View Post
Yeah no disagreement here.

I think it is interesting if you look at Chicago which has one of the best public transit systems in the country (easy to live in without a car), and is among the most walkable/bikeable but has much lower (but still high) transit rate than NYC. Chicago is an easier city to drive in than NYC, Boston, DC or Philadelphia. To steal a phrase from Aaron Renn at the Manhattan Institute, it is sort of a "duck-billed platypus" of cities.

I wonder if it has reached an "Equilibrium of choice" of some sort that other cities have not. I know a few one car couples there, where in other places you either both have a car, or (for my friends in DC and NYC ) both do not. It isn't that I'm saying that New Yorkers don't enjoy the walk-able lifestyle, but I'm sure many of them sometimes wish they could hop in a car and go to Costco and load up for a week or two of groceries.

I know it was like that when I lived in Rome at least. People who loved living in the city and who didn't own a car sometimes dreamed of having one and avoiding the metro.
I knew someone like that from Staten Island of all places. Always used to say she wanted to get a car and move to the suburbs. Itís funny because compared to the other 4 boroughs Staten Island might as well be a suburb. To be fair though she lived on the North Shore which is the more urban part of the Island.

Weíve got Costcoís in Brooklyn and Queens with subway access. But I guess I see your point as Costco sells things in bulk and you can fit much more in your car than you can on the subway. Grocery delivery seems to be the more common alternative for people that really want to stock up on groceries.

I like your analysis on Chicago. I also like the idea of Chicago personified as a platypus, lol. I feel like thatís fitting for some reason but idk why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
How is the need for walkability different if you rely on mass transit vs car?

To me, as a person who takes things literally, it seems funny to use the word walkability when a person is talking about mass transit access, because you aren't walking if you use mass transit. It is an alternative to walking.
Transit is not a direct alternative to walking, itís used as a supplement if anything. Here in NY transit is used when you need to travel longer distances to far away neighborhoods in other parts of the city ó when either the distance is too long and you donít feel like walking/donít have time, or when you need to cross a body of water to get to another island. Way more often than not, there will not be a subway stop directly at your start and end points. Youíre likely going to have to do a decent amount of walking with on top of this. Transit really only works in combination with walking.
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