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Old 12-03-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,799,113 times
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America's more urban cities were founded and built before modern, large scale, commercial air conditioning was invented. Before that, and other than at ports and navigable rivers, there was practically zero motivation to build a large city in hot climates. Most of the cities in the South and West saw most of their growth happen AFTER A/C was invented, around the same time that the automobile assembly production line was invented. It was a one-two punch that allowed cities to be built and/or expanded in places that were otherwise inhabitable for large parts of the year.

Last edited by rnc2mbfl; 12-03-2017 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 12-03-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Jackson, Mississippi
204 posts, read 162,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It's certainly less common these days to have a whole house with yard and live in a very walkable neighborhood. It does exist though you're right that it's much more commonly a multi-resident dwelling such as an apartment or condo (though not necessarily a high rise). I wouldn't say that kind of housing is especially ill-suited to people in the 30 plus category though since I know a lot of people in that range living in such and they seem pretty content. It's really about what you value.

As a simple geometry issue, if you're spacing things for everyone to have a house with a yard, then you're going to run into an issue where the space allocation for that puts relatively few people within walking distance of any non-residential establishment which means that establishment can't be built geared towards people walking there. Instead, it will need to be geared towards people getting there by other means, but generally that means cars and parking lots in the US. That's fine if it's your preference, but it doesn't tie in so well with a topic that's supposedly about a place being walkable.

A very walkable city in the south is New Orleans and there's a pretty good amount of multi-resident units there and the single family homes there are generally on very small lots. It makes sense as New Orleans was a major city in the pre-automobile period. I think it's a particular standout, because it was an economically booming city at the time at the mouth of the Mississippi where a lot of the goods from upriver into the vast interior could be traded and it was a massive slave market, also traded as a commodity, but was not the site of vast plantations which also required a lot of land. As the south was more agrarian and a large part of the total economy emphasized such while having relatively small populations that were free to make their own living, it makes sense that relatively few walkable cities developed. There are still quite a few though that did absorb the sort of urban build out of the old cities, though most of them were port cities that did not go through the same booms as northern cities.

Gotta Love New Orleans!

But seriously, I totally agree with what you say, Oy Crumbler; the more dense a neighborhood is, the less likely you'd have big homes with a yard. Pretty simple geometry if you think about it! Nonetheless, all of that explanation was more than needed to make it clear to someone who needed to hear that explanation. And you're right about Southern Cities having larger lots being developed AFTER the time when most walkable neighborhoods and cities developed! Very good case study with New Orleans, as I think that drove home the point about neighborhoods developing before the automobile. Very good post!
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:08 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,136 posts, read 23,648,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmerich01 View Post
Gotta Love New Orleans!

But seriously, I totally agree with what you say, Oy Crumbler; the more dense a neighborhood is, the less likely you'd have big homes with a yard. Pretty simple geometry if you think about it! Nonetheless, all of that explanation was more than needed to make it clear to someone who needed to hear that explanation. And you're right about Southern Cities having larger lots being developed AFTER the time when most walkable neighborhoods and cities developed! Very good case study with New Orleans, as I think that drove home the point about neighborhoods developing before the automobile. Very good post!
New Orleans is a very easy city to love. Just made some oysters rockefeller the other day--it was wonderful.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:11 PM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,808 posts, read 1,300,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Can you live in a nice house with a yard up north and still walk to stuff in a downtown area? Seems like the only grass you are going to see in Manhattan is in Central Park. I think in general you would have to live in an apartment/ condo in a high rise, and that kind of housing doesn't suit most people especially 30 plus.

Looking at Portland on google maps, it has a nice riverside park but it is kind of offset from the CBD and on the other side of what looks like a busy commuter highway.

The NBA arena and what looks like a hockey arena are on the other side of the river.
I don't think understand the question, Portland is almost entirely single family homes with yards. Places like Cleveland or Cincinnati or even Chicago are mostly single family homes.

Manhattan isn't a good example of the "north" at all because it is so unique, but even the majority of NYC is single family homes with (super small yards)

Are you asking if there are other cities where all the attractions are crammed into a small area and have single family homes around them? If yes, that tends to be the case with most mid or small cities, (or newly large cities) that isn't a southern thing. Look at Indianapolis for example, or Des Moines.

This tends to be more of a trend with newer cities because it is an urban planning thing. "Downtown as a destination." Older cities put ballparks wherever, but usually in cheaper areas because back then you didn't have TV deals, so you got all your money from tickets so you had to keep costs down.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,583 posts, read 3,999,195 times
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I'm talking about downtown areas, CBDs.

I don't think there would be too much interest in 'walkability' of neighborhoods outside of a downtown area.

People can live downtown in every southern city as far as I know.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:17 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,136 posts, read 23,648,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I'm talking about downtown areas, CBDs.
What about CBDs? They're often pretty walkable up north though some of them had a vast depopulation in the latter half of the 20th century, but most of them went back to being mixed-use in the last few decades so the downtown areas of most major northern cities are pretty walkable now.

Or are you asking if there are a lot of single family homes with yards in CBDs? If that's the case, then the answer is sometimes, but they are generally not that common. Again, it's a geometry issue.

There's a lot of interest in walkability outside of downtown areas. After all, not everyone lives in downtown so relegating walkability to only the CBD isn't to everyone's taste. Pre-automobile era, many, many cities had very walkable neighborhoods outside the CBD and they were little microcosms where people often spent most of their time. I believe the vast growth of large corporations and chain retail and restaurants as well as large shopping centers geared towards driving there reversed that trend for quite a while, but in some ways that's been coming back over the last few decades in some parts of US cities. The vast majority of people who live in walkable neighborhoods in the US do not live in a CBD.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: "The Dirty Irv" Irving, TX
2,808 posts, read 1,300,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I'm talking about downtown areas, CBDs.

I don't think there would be too much interest in 'walkability' of neighborhoods outside of a downtown area.

People can live downtown in every southern city as far as I know.
Why wouldn't you want walk-ability outside of a downtown area? Walkable doesn't have to mean high rises or anything, you can have walkable and a yard.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
7,583 posts, read 3,999,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treasurevalley92 View Post
Why wouldn't you want walk-ability outside of a downtown area? Walkable doesn't have to mean high rises or anything, you can have walkable and a yard.
I thought this conversation was about CBDs, downtown areas.

Desirability for walkability outside of downtown areas seems more related to if you want to drive a car or not.

From a time standpoint, driving is generally going to be quicker and it seems like going to a grocery store or a Home Depot type store would be problematic without a vehicle, if you are buying a lot of stuff or large items.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:25 PM
 
1,593 posts, read 832,787 times
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I would say if you are in the downtown of your city do you uber or do you walk?
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:26 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,136 posts, read 23,648,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_League View Post
Why can't we build compact, walkable cities in warm climates? Who cares if you can walk to amenities in Boston in January, I would rather be in my warm car. But go down to LA where it's 70 degrees out in "winter" and all of a sudden you need a car..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
I thought this conversation was about CBDs, downtown areas.

Desirability for walkability outside of downtown areas seems more related to if you want to drive a car or not.
The above was the original post. It didn't say that it was just CBDs or downtown areas.

Yea, I'm sure desirability for walkable areas outside of downtown is related to some degree to if someone wants to drive a car or not for everything. Not everyone wants to do that. However, I think you started by using a different notion for what walkability is supposed to encompass, so it's unclear what your train of thought is.
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