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Old 03-25-2018, 07:16 AM
 
21,186 posts, read 30,343,833 times
Reputation: 19614

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
Why? A family can buy a newer house outside of Allegheny county for the same amount or less and get a garage, yard, better school district, safer neighborhood, and pay less taxes. I have seen brand new townhomes advertised for under 200K in the burbs. Census numbers tell the truth. Baby Boomers and Millennials want new and suburban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Now you're nitpicking. What do you mean most wouldn't want to live there? If an apartment in Harlem is that expensive, then clearly there is a demand to live there.
Not nitpicking, it's just a matter of why when the alternatives are so much better to most. And while what was pointed out about the suburbs stands as an example there's also the less drastic options in terms of urban amenities in cities like Raleigh-Durham, Richmond, Charlotte, Atlanta, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, St Louis, Kansas City, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and arguably much of Chicago. I don't think Millennials are so much about new and suburban as they are about not becoming debt addled like prior generations have been more prone to do, and wise given the economic outlook of very little salary growth which is something that has not been factored by much of the Boomer generation.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Kent, UK/ Rhode Island, US
626 posts, read 574,927 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prickly Pear View Post
I live in car-centric Phoenix metro.

I pay $630/month with a roommate, have $500/month in car expenses if I factor in insurance, gas, and car payment (not including estimated maintenance).

In hindsight if I did not have to pay $500/month for the car, does that mean I would put that money all towards rent for the urban apartment? If I pay that $1200/month for a one bedroom, I still couldn't afford the urban one bedrooms, I'd get a studio at best in Phoenix at 400-600 square feet. I could afford the two bedroom suburban apartment I live in now by myself, but then I'd need the car, so I'm back to square one.

Urbanity is expensive because of NIMBYs and over 50 years of urban neglect. Over the course of said 60 years or so developers have been underdeveloping, and we are seeing those effects today. Severely restrictive zoning is making only luxury apartment profitable, and that's the only ones being built because of it.

If we didn't have white flight and significant suburbanization for basically three generations and the urban centers of our major cities were much more affordable due to more housing stock, I guarantee that more people would pick the urban car-free lifestyle (let's be honest cars aren't cheap) than the suburbs. It's just that in the United States it has been the suburbs and only the suburbs, suburbs are the only ones being subsidized, etc. that's where all the housing stock is, and many just don't have the choice and are being priced out of urban areas by the wealthy. It shouldn't have to be that way.
Spot on. My thoughts exactly.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:45 AM
 
4,480 posts, read 2,661,399 times
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The math will be different in every region and for every personal instance. But the concept of spending on housing instead of a car is very common. It allows people with averageish incomes to live in expensive central cities.

In many cases people are still paying more. Maybe the difference in rents for the same place in an urban vs. suburban area is greater than $500 or whatever the car expenses might be. And similar for sale prices. Paradoxically the difference is probably greatest in NYC where the fringes are mid-priced and the core is multiples of that.

But it's not all money. Saving an hour or two per day by not commuting...it's heaven.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:09 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,948,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post
The census numbers tell us that the parts of the metro that lie outside of Allegheny County are seeing high percentages of population loss. Desirability as a relative term, but it seems as if more people in the area would rather be in or near the city.
Wouldn't that be something if the 2020 Census shows Allegheny County gaining population but the Pittsburgh MSA still losing population? It could happen. After all, Allegheny County was the only county in the MSA to have its 2016 population revised upward with the release of the 2017 estimates three days ago. An upward revision to its 2017 population with the release of the 2018 estimates next March will put Allegheny County in the perfect position to pull it off in 2020, especially now that job growth in the MSA has massively accelerated in the last 18 months.
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:59 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemVegas View Post
Young people have never had the same preferences and views. Some young people prefer big cities, some prefer suburbs, some prefer rural.
Yeah, it's almost like they're individuals or something, no?
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:34 AM
 
381 posts, read 146,344 times
Reputation: 196
Dont believe the hype. Suburbs are dead. the prices are going down, shopping malls closing across the country. retail shops closing. everything related to suburbia is dying. Now there are more drugs problems in the suburbs than in the cities, opioids are hitting hard there. Urban decay is soon to follow.

Gentrification and urban renewal is were the money is. Just look at NYC, a Brownstone is Harlem easily cost 4 million.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:55 AM
 
2,505 posts, read 2,265,374 times
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This just shows the subgroup that either don't like big cities or couldn't afford the big cities.... Millennials like any generation are a varied group and have different preferences. And just like any group, are also being priced out i.e. certain suburbs with the generation prior.
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,144 posts, read 2,825,168 times
Reputation: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
Dont believe the hype. Suburbs are dead. the prices are going down, shopping malls closing across the country. retail shops closing. everything related to suburbia is dying. Now there are more drugs problems in the suburbs than in the cities, opioids are hitting hard there. Urban decay is soon to follow.

Gentrification and urban renewal is were the money is. Just look at NYC, a Brownstone is Harlem easily cost 4 million.
Tell that to the people moving to the burbs in the Rust Belt Cities. Buffalo, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh are seeing growth only in the burbs and exurbs. The trends are reversing back to when people would leave for the nearest cheap county.

Cuyahoga County No. 3 nationally in population loss last year, new census estimates say | cleveland.com
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:28 AM
 
381 posts, read 146,344 times
Reputation: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
Tell that to the people moving to the burbs in the Rust Belt Cities. Buffalo, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh are seeing growth only in the burbs and exurbs. The trends are reversing back to when people would leave for the nearest cheap county.

Cuyahoga County No. 3 nationally in population loss last year, new census estimates say | cleveland.com
just because those dying cities are seeing a bit of suburban growth doesn't mean that the general trend of the dying suburb is not true. Even Newark is seeing gentrification.

millennials are more centered in life "experiences" than accumulating things. thats why they would rather live where the action is, in the city center than is the suburbs. They are a broke generation, full of debt, so they have settled for living their life to the extreme and not collecting things- thats why they would rather pay 2000$ for a studio in Brooklyn than a mortgage in some suburb. A house, a car ect? those things dont appeal to them....they believe in uber and airbnb, the "share economy generation" of low cost and owning nothing.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,558 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27607
Quote:
Originally Posted by upthere22 View Post
just because those dying cities are seeing a bit of suburban growth doesn't mean that the general trend of the dying suburb is not true. Even Newark is seeing gentrification.

millennials are more centered in life "experiences" than accumulating things. thats why they would rather live where the action is, in the city center than is the suburbs. They are a broke generation, full of debt, so they have settled for living their life to the extreme and not collecting things- thats why they would rather pay 2000$ for a studio in Brooklyn than a mortgage in some suburb. A house, a car ect? those things dont appeal to them....they believe in uber and airbnb, the "share economy generation" of low cost and owning nothing.
That's a relatively small subset of the Millennial population.

I'm from a small town in Tennessee. Only a handful of my cohort went to major cities like New York or San Francisco. Many, many more have moved to the suburbs of Atlanta, Nashville, Raleigh, etc. Others couldn't handle that and and want to be extremely rural.
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