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Old 04-09-2018, 09:22 AM
 
38 posts, read 20,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pystachio View Post
How do you all feel about this --> Minnesota ranks #4 in the USA for Social Environment. USNews is a very valuable resource tool and I'm currently using it to find which area of the country to move to. I love the idea of moving to either Minneapolis or Rochester but I don't like the idea of shoveling every day.

It is really frustrating deciding on where to live. I'm currently in Los Angeles and can no longer afford to live here and I live in one of the cheaper areas. I looked into Minneapolis and I read a lot things on here and elsewhere that it's getting too expensive and hard to find a place. But everywhere I look people say the same thing. They say it about Denver and Portland, OR too. The thing is I don't need my own apartment. So perhaps these are warnings to people who need a lot more than me. Like those with families looking for a home. I just need a room/share and a good economy to find a job while I continue to self-study web dev.

Minneapolis has excellent room/share options and even Portland, too. So it's very confusing to me knowing where to go. On the other hand there are dirt cheap places like Toledo but the economy and overall state rankings for areas like that aren't very good.
The Minnesota social environment is nice, friendly, generally non-judgemental on the surface, and welcoming/modestly liberal. However, beneath that, it's closed off, reserved, and exclusive. While everyone, quite literally everyone, is friendly, very few people are personal. So on the surface, it seems like a terrific social environment.

If you're used to LA prices, even the rising costs in MSP will seem dirt cheap to you. Condos in downtown topping $1 million are big stories in the news...while in LA....I assume that's fairly common. Shoveling sucks but honestly it's the cold you're going to have an issue with moving from a warm climate. It's not as diverse as LA but there are a mix of cultures here, just not as evident. Outside of a Somali part of town there's little community built around ethnicity.

I feel you on the frustrating bit
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,152,379 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nottylerdurden View Post
The Minnesota social environment is nice, friendly, generally non-judgemental on the surface, and welcoming/modestly liberal. However, beneath that, it's closed off, reserved, and exclusive. While everyone, quite literally everyone, is friendly, very few people are personal. So on the surface, it seems like a terrific social environment. (
It's the same way in Colorado. Outwardly, it looks friendly and pleasant. But if you spend anytime there, you'll see the closed-off coldness and reservedness. I first noticed it in the work environment. You spend 8+ hours a day with a group of people, but they keep a mask in place and keep their distance. Even if there is a problem or issue, they'll just be outwardly friendly, while inwardly they hate you and want to stab you in the back. It's a weird mismatch of outward/inward nature. It's hard to resolve issues and build bridges, because you never know there are issues unless you happen onto something that reveals them. Actually, after awhile, they lose the effort and starting revealing themselves. The mask starts slipping. Compared to areas with lots of culture and diversity, people are so similar there, that they get uneasy and highly annoyed with people who are different (even just wearing slightly different clothes). I don't think they do it on purpose, but it just comes from being used to so little variety. It's like an immaturity of differences.

I saw the exact same dynamics in three other jobs. It also showed up with neighbors. By the way, a lot of Minnesotans(?) are moving to CO. Birds of a feather?

Where I'm originally from, it's the complete opposite. People there put a premium on being real and genuine, and showing outwardly what they inwardly feel. Being clear and understood is more important that wearing a fixed mask of "everything's fine and great'.

Although we tried hard to "fit in" (uggh) and make friends in CO, in the end, my wife and I never did, other than a couple of very superficial ones. We laugh about it now. But we'll never live in a northern or western state again.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-09-2018 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,447 posts, read 11,948,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Where I'm from, it's the complete opposite. People there put a premium on being real and genuine, and showing outwardly what they inwardly feel. Being clear and understood is more important that wearing a fixed mask of "everything's fine and great'.
Where, if you don't mind me asking? In my experience, everywhere in the U.S. seems to be either "fake friendly, but cold underneath" or else just openly antisocial.

Not that I care, mind you - I was raised mostly in New England, and I just look at talking to strangers as being some weird thing to do, but I never got the idea that people making small talk anywhere I traveled genuinely wanted to - you know - get to know me.
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Avondale, Chicago
14,423 posts, read 26,258,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around View Post
Pittsburgh.
Probably the best that comes to mind. Looks like a big city, but really isn't.

It's more or less what yinz are looking for.
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Mars City
5,091 posts, read 2,152,379 times
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^eschaton: south-central. People there definitely would not understand "I just look at talking to strangers as being some weird thing to do". The opposite; not talking to strangers, would be seen as weird and antisocial.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 04-09-2018 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,447 posts, read 11,948,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
^eschaton: south-central. People there definitely would not understand "I just look at talking to strangers as being some weird thing to do". The opposite; not talking to strangers, would be seen as weird and antisocial.
Yeah, I know everywhere is different. But I never got the idea that "southern hospitality" was all that different from the fake chattiness you find in the Midwest.

I come from a family of introverts, but moving to New England as a child likely made it a lot worse. It's really seen as rude/butting into other people's lives if you speak unless you are spoken to first. When I lived there, I tended to presume if a stranger came up to me and started chatting, they were either mentally ill, panhandling, or proselytizing, and 90%+ of the time that was accurate. I've mellowed as I've aged, but I'm still not particularly good at making causal conversation with other parents at the playground or such things. I just don't want to "be a bother."
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:28 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,017 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
Probably the best that comes to mind. Looks like a big city, but really isn't.

It's more or less what yinz are looking for.
jfre81 where do you live? I get the idea it's not Pittsburgh from this post from yesterday:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
I've lived in Texas, North Carolina, Ohio and Michigan.
I don't recommend Pittsburgh for this guy. It's very insular, still. Most of the people there have always lived in PA, just like MN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Yeah, I know everywhere is different. But I never got the idea that "southern hospitality" was all that different from the fake chattiness you find in the Midwest.

I come from a family of introverts, but moving to New England as a child likely made it a lot worse. It's really seen as rude/butting into other people's lives if you speak unless you are spoken to first. When I lived there, I tended to presume if a stranger came up to me and started chatting, they were either mentally ill, panhandling, or proselytizing, and 90%+ of the time that was accurate. I've mellowed as I've aged, but I'm still not particularly good at making causal conversation with other parents at the playground or such things. I just don't want to "be a bother."
A friend of mine just moved back here from New Hampshire. She's agree with you. She thinks people here in metro Denver are very chatty by comparison.
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle
416 posts, read 248,099 times
Reputation: 1002
I’d check out Portland. Weird city but charming and has most of what you want. You’ll know after visiting if it’s for you. Lots of street people though and not cheap.

20 years ago I would have said Seattle, but it has lost its charm and livability.
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Old 04-09-2018, 11:32 AM
 
7,608 posts, read 9,463,659 times
Reputation: 8973
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Yeah, I know everywhere is different. But I never got the idea that "southern hospitality" was all that different from the fake chattiness you find in the Midwest.

I come from a family of introverts, but moving to New England as a child likely made it a lot worse. It's really seen as rude/butting into other people's lives if you speak unless you are spoken to first. When I lived there, I tended to presume if a stranger came up to me and started chatting, they were either mentally ill, panhandling, or proselytizing, and 90%+ of the time that was accurate. I've mellowed as I've aged, but I'm still not particularly good at making causal conversation with other parents at the playground or such things. I just don't want to "be a bother."
It is a very New England aspect of behavior to stay out of others' conversations and respect others' privacy. The flip side is that we might seem standoffish to other Americans.

I've heard this complaint about Minnesotans more than a few times, so there might be a grain of truth to it, but there are always exceptions. It's probably best to start conversations with safe talk, with a dose of understatement, and then see how it goes...
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Old 04-09-2018, 04:26 PM
Status: "Be yourself. What's the alternative?" (set 26 days ago)
 
8,736 posts, read 10,859,792 times
Reputation: 12781
I've enjoyed reading this thread. I grew up in Upstate NY, smallish town. We talked to people we knew, which was a lot of people as you grew up, but we didn't invade each other's space or time. In the South, there's lots of small talk and chitty chatty, which I don't get. It's deemed polite and something you do, but who cares about what you cook or do or where you go. I mean really, who does? I like quiet, so it can be annoying at times.

I've lived in N. England and grew up not far from the Berkshires, so I remember the ways people related there. Hard to "get in," but once you're "in" people are very genuine and loyal (like upstaters, but more reserved I'd say).

Arizona was a happy medium. Where I lived in the 90's, open minded, mind your business, easy to make friends, but not in your face, you do your thing and I'll do mine, but if I wanted to be left alone that was ok, too.

Last edited by Nanny Goat; 04-09-2018 at 04:35 PM..
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