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Old 04-17-2018, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,557 posts, read 17,535,380 times
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Do I think it's being diluted?

In the areas where the jobs are, absolutely. These areas have been attracting migrants from other areas of the country, not just the northeast, for decades now, largely due to the (relative) availability of jobs, better weather, and cheaper cost of living.

I'm a native Tennessean. I'm not from Nashville, but go out in any of the affluent suburbs or recently gentrified areas and it's rare to hear a Southern accent. I'd assume the same is true in most of the other major cities.

The areas where there are no jobs or are not otherwise attractive to transplants have largely remained the same, but that is not necessarily positive.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:32 PM
 
Location: 352
5,122 posts, read 3,879,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I get your overall point, but in response to this question, actually many of them were. Of course, this phenomenon had a huge racial component to it.
Not talking race. Talking "those dang southerners! Bringing their sweet tea, church, and porches up here! Detroit used to have such northern charm, now everybody's hospitable and says hello to me in the grocery store! I drove to a Red Wings game and it was just courteous drivers everywhere, I hate it!"

I doubt they were whining like that back then as much as we do now.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Not talking race. Talking "those dang southerners! Bringing their sweet tea, church, and porches up here! Detroit used to have such northern charm, now everybody's hospitable and says hello to me in the grocery store! I drove to a Red Wings game and it was just courteous drivers everywhere, I hate it!"

I doubt they were whining like that back then as much as we do now.
Actually....

https://books.google.com/books?id=fu...page&q&f=false

And it makes sense that many of them would complain about it. Rapid change like that makes people nervous for all sorts of reasons.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Naples Island
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The places at highest risk of "losing their unique identities," so to speak, as a result of transplants moving in are those that never had much of a concrete identity to begin with.

For example, states such as Arizona and Florida had fairly brief histories prior to the advent of air conditioning in the 1950's and, therefore, were lowly populated for much of American history. With a low, mostly rural population, it is difficult for a place to develop a local culture and foster a "unique identity" because there isn't much social cohesion.

When a mass influx of transplants and/or immigrants ensues, the native-born locals tend to isolate themselves or retreat by "going deeper into the woods" or moving out of state altogether, bringing with them whatever semblance of local culture that previously existed. Meanwhile, the transplants and immigrants are still wrapped up in their customs and traditions from wherever they originated. Even if they wanted to assimilate to the local culture of their new transient home, they simply can't find it, regardless of where they look.

Furthermore, the fact that many transplant-heavy states like Florida, Nevada, Vermont and Wyoming, for example, have low-paying or non-existent economies only exacerbates this issue (because native-born residents are often compelled to move out-of-state to obtain gainful employment, especially among younger generations).

Think of it this way: 9/10 employees from a department at local company are laid off in a merger or acquisition. The department is then built up around the one remaining employee. Within a year, nine new employees are hired in the department. There is some ensuing turnover in the department, but the legacy employee remains for years to come. But even after 10 years, there is still only one employee in the department who has any "organizational memory" from before the reorganization. Eventually, however, that teammate moves on to a different organization or retires.

I think of states like Arizona and Florida in that respect, if you swap "organizational memory" for "cultural memory." On a block with ten homeowners in either one of those states, there's probably only one native-born resident, and it's likely that person will move on before you do, taking with them any "cultural memory" (they may have retained). Kinda sad, IMO.

Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 04-17-2018 at 10:52 PM..
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:08 AM
 
29,888 posts, read 27,333,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
The places at highest risk of "losing their unique identities," so to speak, as a result of transplants moving in are those that never had much of a concrete identity to begin with.

For example, states such as Arizona and Florida had fairly brief histories prior to the advent of air conditioning in the 1950's and, therefore, were lowly populated for much of American history. With a low, mostly rural population, it is difficult for a place to develop a local culture and foster a "unique identity" because there isn't much social cohesion.

When a mass influx of transplants and/or immigrants ensues, the native-born locals tend to isolate themselves or retreat by "going deeper into the woods" or moving out of state altogether, bringing with them whatever semblance of local culture that previously existed. Meanwhile, the transplants and immigrants are still wrapped up in their customs and traditions from wherever they originated. Even if they wanted to assimilate to the local culture of their new transient home, they simply can't find it, regardless of where they look.

Furthermore, the fact that many transplant-heavy states like Florida, Nevada, Vermont and Wyoming, for example, have low-paying or non-existent economies only exacerbates this issue (because native-born residents are often compelled to move out-of-state to obtain gainful employment, especially among younger generations).

Think of it this way: 9/10 employees from a department at local company are laid off in a merger or acquisition. The department is then built up around the one remaining employee. Within a year, nine new employees are hired in the department. There is some ensuing turnover in the department, but the legacy employee remains for years to come. But even after 10 years, there is still only one employee in the department who has any "organizational memory" from before the reorganization. Eventually, however, that teammate moves on to a different organization or retires.

I think of states like Arizona and Florida in that respect, if you swap "organizational memory" for "cultural memory." On a block with ten homeowners in either one of those states, there's probably only one native-born resident, and it's likely that person will move on before you do, taking with them any "cultural memory" (they may have retained). Kinda sad, IMO.
You have a point and that's why this applies mostly to south Florida and less so to north Florida.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Naples Island
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
You have a point and that's why this applies mostly to south Florida and less so to north Florida.
Not quite. Counties such as Escambia, Flagler and St. Johns, for example, are much more transient than Dade and Broward.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:25 PM
 
Location: SW Pennsylvania
821 posts, read 1,253,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Actually....

https://books.google.com/books?id=fu...page&q&f=false

And it makes sense that many of them would complain about it. Rapid change like that makes people nervous for all sorts of reasons.
Interesting.

There's a song Dolly Parton sang and wrote called "Appalachian Memories" and it details the feelings many southern mountain people faced while living in places like Detroit. Another song by Dwight Yoakum, "Reading, Writing, Route 23" is another account of this migration too.

It seems like the older people had a harder time adjusting and the children who were young, or not born yet, adjusted a lot better. I believe that's how it is for any mass migration.

On a side note, there was a little known northern Appalachian migration from the eastern Pennsylvania coal mines. But they didn't head to the Midwestern cities. A lot of them migrated to Baltimore to work in the shipbuilding industry.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:27 PM
 
29,888 posts, read 27,333,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert_from_back_East View Post
Not quite. Counties such as Escambia, Flagler and St. Johns, for example, are much more transient than Dade and Broward.
But they have a longer history of being established places, well at least Escambia and St. Johns do as they were Florida's two original counties.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:30 PM
 
29,888 posts, read 27,333,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallydude02 View Post
Interesting.

There's a song Dolly Parton sang and wrote called "Appalachian Memories" and it details the feelings many southern mountain people faced while living in places like Detroit. Another song by Dwight Yoakum, "Reading, Writing, Route 23" is another account of this migration too.

It seems like the older people had a harder time adjusting and the children who were young, or not born yet, adjusted a lot better. I believe that's how it is for any mass migration.

On a side note, there was a little known northern Appalachian migration from the eastern Pennsylvania coal mines. But they didn't head to the Midwestern cities. A lot of them migrated to Baltimore to work in the shipbuilding industry.
Makes sense. Although I was born and raised in the deep/coastal plain South, I'm familiar with Appalachia and it struck me the other day that Baltimore's White population, particularly the middle-class/working-class population, gives me Appalachian vibes and it made me wonder what similarities Baltimore shares with Pittsburgh (which I've never visited).
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:17 PM
 
5,857 posts, read 14,043,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallydude02 View Post
Interesting.

There's a song Dolly Parton sang and wrote called "Appalachian Memories" and it details the feelings many southern mountain people faced while living in places like Detroit. Another song by Dwight Yoakum, "Reading, Writing, Route 23" is another account of this migration too.

It seems like the older people had a harder time adjusting and the children who were young, or not born yet, adjusted a lot better. I believe that's how it is for any mass migration.

On a side note, there was a little known northern Appalachian migration from the eastern Pennsylvania coal mines. But they didn't head to the Midwestern cities. A lot of them migrated to Baltimore to work in the shipbuilding industry.
There's also Bobby Bare's 1963 crossover hit "Detroit City" :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s4GHY-fpOc
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