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I think the density statistics tell the story. Take a gander at these density maps of Virginia
We think of northern Virginia because of the counties around DC...considerably more northern.
and North Carolina
North Carolina has Charlotte balanced by Wake and Durham counties with Raliegh and the research triangle university area. Charlotte has some northern attributes and I think of the research triangle area as having even more of the same -- but in general, I consider North Carolina more southern than Virginia.
The most common modern experience and perceptions are driven by the density.
In Tennessee, you might think of Nashville and Memphis and then the eastern mountains...There is a different perception at work in Tennessee. Nashville and Memphis do not shout "northern" and the eastern mountain counties are perceived as Appalachia. Appalachia doesn't contribute as much to the perception of Virginia and North Carolina.
Interesting maps. However, what "northern attributes,", exactly, do you think Charlotte seems to possess that Atlanta, for instance, doesn't? You could pull up a map for Georgia and it wouldn't paint any different of a picture. And yes, Nashville and Memphis do not "shout northern." But neither does anywhere in VA or NC. There are places with more northern transplants, but to say that they "shout northern" seems facetious.
Interesting. As a southerner, I see a lot of obsession with defining the South (often in negative terms) from people from other parts of the country.
For the record, of course NC and VA are southern states. I can't imagine why anyone would think differently but whatever. Some people also think the world is flat, and that man has never landed on the moon.
Well said. To give my two cents about his or her original question, I think it's pretty self-explanatory why southerners care about what their home is and how it's defined.
Interesting maps. However, what "northern attributes,", exactly, do you think Charlotte seems to possess that Atlanta, for instance, doesn't? You could pull up a map for Georgia and it wouldn't paint any different of a picture. And yes, Nashville and Memphis do not "shout northern." But neither does anywhere in VA or NC. There are places with more northern transplants, but to say that they "shout northern" seems facetious.
The question was concerning Virginia and North Carolina. Personally, I don't care but the population density map of Virginia clearly tells a tale. North Carolina to a lesser extent. I think they are both more southern than northern, but more northern when compared to states like Alabama or South Carolina. There is no monolithic "southern" culture anyway so people wringing their hands over the demise of southern-ness are obsessing. Tennessee might be an example of the different cultural threads and diversity running from the delta to the Appalachians. Charlotte is the third largest banking center in the US (the only southern city in the top five) but that is balanced by other aspects. There are northern inroads and enclaves in places that might have traditionally been considered more southern and some southern features crop up in northern areas.
Almost everyone considers Virginia and North Carolina to be in the South. There are many who view them as "Southern-Lite," given that there are some highly populated parts of the states that do not characteristically align with what most people consider traditionally Southern (in terms of demographics, built environment, pace of life, etc). Namely Northern Virginia and from what I hear Research Triangle in North Carolina (although I am less familiar with this region). Overall, nobody would say that the states as a whole are not Southern, but people will point out that there are regions in the state that do not seem "Southern," so they are overall generally considered to be "Southern Light" or "Less Southern" than other Southern states.
The question was concerning Virginia and North Carolina. Personally, I don't care but the population density map of Virginia clearly tells a tale. North Carolina to a lesser extent. I think they are both more southern than northern, but more northern when compared to states like Alabama or South Carolina.
What Northern characteristics do you think NC possesses?
It’s Deep South purists who believe their culture is the end all be all of what is Southern. They have a very narrow mind view of the differences across the South.
Of course, Virginia and North Carolina are Southern. Any one who has travelled extensively would know this.
I think there is a distinction among states and sub-state locations in the geographic South, in that some have more influence from outside the region than others. Virginia is located on the northern edge of the South and has a large share of residents from elsewhere, while Mississippi is far removed from all other regions and has relatively few transplants. Other states are in between, with North Carolina leaning more towards Virginia's position than is true of the states further south.
It makes more sense to view the degree of "Southernness" as a continuum rather than a binary choice. But every state of the region is technically Southern, some are just more "pure" and others more "modified" so to speak. Additionally, there are significant variations within each state. Many areas of Virginia have little influence from outside the South, but those sections of the state are not where the bulk of the population resides today.
Why is this so important to people? There seems to be an obsession about defining “The South” amongst some southerners.
Because, in my experience with talking with people on this concept, anyone who can be considered a Southerner wants go be considered one. Even in the border states. Southerners are generally viewed in a very positive light as being friendly and proper people. I believe it is this reputation of Southerners that drives many of these threads.
Last edited by Kemba; 07-21-2018 at 02:35 PM..
Reason: G
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