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Old 10-24-2018, 07:33 PM
 
9,422 posts, read 5,238,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcouger View Post
I'm just saying I would rather live in a functioning downtown . I believe just because it's old and historical doesn't make it more functioning. Maybe if Philly had a full size Target at least in center city then it would be partial functioning. The Macys downtown has been stripped its only two floors. There is no movie theater complexes not multiple like other cities. The main mall downtown is mostly vacant and being remodeled. It's sad for a city philly's size to have a small downtown I really hope the new mall really takes off and spurs other development. I'm talking not land size but built environment.
Fyi, the remodeled mall will have a main stream films movie theater. Art house film lovers have 12 screens to choose from between the 3 Landmark owned theater. There are also two independent movie theaters owned and operated by the Phila. Film Society.

A full sized Target opened a month ago just north of Center City.

The Macy's is three floors.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:38 PM
 
145 posts, read 104,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcouger View Post
I'm just saying I would rather live in a functioning downtown . I believe just because it's old and historical doesn't make it more functioning. Maybe if Philly had a full size Target at least in center city then it would be partial functioning. The Macys downtown has been stripped its only two floors. There is no movie theater complexes not multiple like other cities. The main mall downtown is mostly vacant and being remodeled. It's sad for a city philly's size to have a small downtown I really hope the new mall really takes off and spurs other development. I'm talking not land size but built environment.
Wrong on several counts.

*Macy's downtown covers three floors (not two) of the enormous Wanamaker Building which occupies an entire city block. Century 21 also has a department store downtown;

*Center City already has four multi-screen cinemas (Ritz Bourse, Ritz 5, Ritz East, Roxy) with a new luxurious 8-screen cinema under construction;

*Target has THREE stores in CC each one offering electronics, groceries, housewares, Starbucks, a pharmacy, and clothing. I shop at the one near me all the time;

*Major CC grocery stores include Trader Joe's, ACME (2), and Whole Foods (2);

*Walnut Street and Chestnut Street west of Broad Street (and the connecting cross-streets) are lined with many, many fine stores and restaurants;

*Outstanding performing arts venues line South Broad Street and soon the refurbished Metropolitan Opera House with 3,500 seats will reopen on North Broad Street;

*Some of the world's finest museums (art, natural history, science) are located along the Ben Franklin Pkwy;

*There are multiple parks (one with miniature golf) and libraries downtown;

*Outstanding medical facilities are in Center City including Will's Eye Hospital (America's best); Pennsylvania Hospital (America's first-1751); Jefferson Medical Center; and Hanneman Hospital.

Downtown Philly isn't small, it is but incredibly dense and compact. I would go so far as to say that there is no place in America where one can find such an incredible variety of goods, services, and attractions within a reasonable walking distance as one can find in Center City Philadelphia. I've lived here now for 16-years (without a car), and not once, NOT ONCE have I felt the need to leave downtown to get the things I need or want. Now that is what I call a FULLY functional downtown!
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:45 PM
 
3,213 posts, read 1,543,956 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Fyi, the remodeled mall will have a main stream films movie theater. Art house film lovers have 12 screens to choose from between the 3 Landmark owned theater. There are also two independent movie theaters owned and operated by the Phila. Film Society.

A full sized Target opened a month ago just north of Center City.

The Macy's is three floors.
Even in Chicago the Loop Macy's (the originally Marshall Fields). Downsized a couple floors in cost cutting. The original Marshall Fields, once even had two buildings. The Men's was separate. They even went to just the main building, years before Macy's took over.

Both Philly and Chicago anew lucky Macy's preserved a preserved these olé Grand dames of retail buildings. Macy's in Philly preserved its Grand Pipe organ of the original Wanamaker's.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,852 posts, read 8,990,543 times
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The real downtown in NYC is Lower Manhattan. It has improved post-9/11, but before 9/11, most of the economic activity was (and still is) in Midtown. So technically, NYC doesn't have a functioning downtown because the original settlement was supplanted by everything uptown from it.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
2,918 posts, read 3,632,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
The real downtown in NYC is Lower Manhattan. It has improved post-9/11, but before 9/11, most of the economic activity was (and still is) in Midtown. So technically, NYC doesn't have a functioning downtown because the original settlement was supplanted by everything uptown from it.
That’s just local naming. By that logic Charlotte and Philadelphia don’t even have downtowns.
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Old 10-24-2018, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,852 posts, read 8,990,543 times
Reputation: 2364
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy View Post
That’s just local naming. By that logic Charlotte and Philadelphia don’t even have downtowns.
Actually Lower Manhattan is the historic, original settlement that NYC sprouted out of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam

By comparison, the Chicago Loop is still the center of Chicagoland. Michigan Avenue and the Near North Side is the "uptown" luxury district with shopping and lakefront condominiums.

Center City is the same way. In fact, I consider it more beautiful than NYC because of it's revolutionary grid plan compared to contemporaneous Lower Manhattan and Boston. The red bricks in the historical area instantly transport me to London.
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:09 PM
 
3,213 posts, read 1,543,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KerrTown View Post
Actually Lower Manhattan is the historic, original settlement that NYC sprouted out of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam

By comparison, the Chicago Loop is still the center of Chicagoland. Michigan Avenue and the Near North Side is the "uptown" luxury district with shopping and lakefront condominiums.

Center City is the same way. In fact, I consider it more beautiful than NYC because of it's revolutionary grid plan compared to contemporaneous Lower Manhattan and Boston. The red bricks in the historical area instantly transport me to London.
Downtowns in common usage are also the cities main CBD. That even Wikipedia says in defining "downtown".

So by that ... Chicago's City Portal sight for the city.
Defines what its OFFICIAL CBD is.

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Facil...rict/tksj-nvsw

Chicago clearly has north of the river clearly with many if its top hotels with première shopping. That is clearly part if downtown today. Even seeing the whole downtown skyline. You clearly would not cut it in half today and say only the south half of the Loop s downtown alone. As the last picture shows.

You Got "Big Willis" on the south end and "Big John" and "Big Trump" in the middle.

Pictures of the areas included with the Loop as downtown CBD today too.

Streeterville north of the river ...River North... All downtown not just the Loop left half
Attached Thumbnails
U.S. has 5 fully functioning downtowns-streeterville-downtown-chicago-high-rise-skyscraper   U.S. has 5 fully functioning downtowns-streeterville-downtown-chicago-neighborhood-...jpg   U.S. has 5 fully functioning downtowns-river-north-downtown-chicago-lofts-new   U.S. has 5 fully functioning downtowns-over-chicagos-downtown-.jpg  

Last edited by DavePa; 10-24-2018 at 10:18 PM..
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Old 10-24-2018, 11:04 PM
 
9,422 posts, read 5,238,138 times
Reputation: 3220
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Even in Chicago the Loop Macy's (the originally Marshall Fields). Downsized a couple floors in cost cutting. The original Marshall Fields, once even had two buildings. The Men's was separate. They even went to just the main building, years before Macy's took over.

Both Philly and Chicago anew lucky Macy's preserved a preserved these olé Grand dames of retail buildings. Macy's in Philly preserved its Grand Pipe organ of the original Wanamaker's.
Dave, the Macy's in Phila's Center City was downsized by another dept store chain beforehand while the rest of the 9 story Wanamaker Bldg was converted to office space. For someone as musically minded as me the most important feature in the Macy's store IS the Wanamaker Organ. Afaik, it's the largest pipe organ in the world.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,526,459 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Even in Chicago the Loop Macy's (the originally Marshall Fields). Downsized a couple floors in cost cutting. The original Marshall Fields, once even had two buildings. The Men's was separate. They even went to just the main building, years before Macy's took over.

Both Philly and Chicago anew lucky Macy's preserved a preserved these olé Grand dames of retail buildings. Macy's in Philly preserved its Grand Pipe organ of the original Wanamaker's.
When Macy's acquired Marshall Field's and turned its stores into Macy's, the era of the downtown store store and its importance was doomed to fall. Rapidly. Marshall Field's was a chain, of course, but Marshall Field's was also a store, a location.....one can easily make the argument that the State Street store was Marshall Field's. Indeed, it was the loss of the State Street store that was the real lament in Chicago. Sure, the chain counted a lot. And some stores where truly MF icons: Water Tower Place's Field's was a huge turning point for Michigan Avenue's Mag Mile. With Field there, the avenue "arrived". Two suburban stores also held sway: particularly Old Orchard in Skokie, Field's first venture into a truly major shopping center, OO was built around Field's and Field's was the main show by far. In Oakbrook, a similar, even larger Field's was built and it, too, was one of the chain's crowned jewels.

But it was State Street that was the real store. And The State Street store was rim doffermt;u. far more departments and selection, many promotional events, particularly fairs for a product or line theme. Restaurants and other special places. It never lost its cachet.

So no store...not just Macy's, but any that might have filled it, wouldn't have worked. Marshall Field's State Street was a true and only flagship and was run as a flagship; no other store could have come in and played that role.

Macy's Inc. shot itself in the foot by converting the Field's stores. It should have known that in Chicago, being Chicago, they wouldn't work. It killed a tourist destination that was the State Street store and it made a trip up its many (10 or so) levels meaningless since it was filled with the same crap that Macy's sold at all stores. Flagship, my ass.....State Street and Union Square may be called flagships, but they're not: the only flagship is Herald Square......and Chicago plays second fiddle as second city, while SF is an afterthought.

Chicago's different. We had two departments stores anchored on State Street one block apart, serving the basic upper middle market that was the bread and butter of higher end department stores: Marshall Field and Carson Pirie Scott. What made Field's and Carsons different was that they were virtually the "last holdouts", maintaining their independence from being acquired by the mass chains along the lines of Macy's, Federated, etc. (Field's unlike Carsons, gave up a tad of its independence earlier, when it was acquired by British tobacco company BATUS. But BATUS had no department stores and Field's was given full reign over its business as always, a true Seinfeld master of its own domain).

Field's and Carsons are what really made State Street State Street....and without them, the era of Loop department stores basically died as Field's converted to Macy's, its name whipped out, Carsons went on to shed its State Street store and recently the whole chain shut down.

Macy's did not have to go the route it did. If it felt it needed the Chicago market and wanted all consolidated under the Macy's name, largely for purposes of advertising, it could have taken all stores but State Street and made them into Macy's expect State Street. Or it could have taken State Street, Water Tower Place, Old Orchard, Northbrook Court, Woodfield and Oakbrook (the best of the Field's, the ones that would most thrive under the continued Field's name) and kept them as Marshall Field's while the other Field's stores converted to Macy's.

Or Macy's, Inc. could have decided to go with three high end department stores:
* Macy's, the most famous, a strong middle/middle plus level market with the best ability for nation wide saturation
* Bloomingdale's: upscale, trendy, cutting edge
* Marshall Field's" the truly complete, all encompassing upscale department store, capable of being carried bu Macy's beyond the various locations outside of Chicagoland that it at given times had expanded (and, in some cases, abandoned): Milwaukee, Columbus, Dallas, Houston

Or, how about t this: Macy's could have kept Marshall Field's on State as a stand along store (the rest of the chain being turned in Macy's). The hybrid store could have included the following:

* some of Marshall Field's best and most famous departments (28 Shop, Field's Afar, etc)

* a secelection of Macy's departments

* a selection of Bloomingdale's; more of the private venders that were included in Field's conversion of its lower level (previously budge store) into "Down Under".

Lots of missed opportunities. I real the day of department stores, if not completely dead, is dying and they will never be a big factor in downtown (or other locations) again. Still, Macy's could have carried this out much better and there were enough win/win opportunities that they could have applied....and didn't.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:58 AM
 
3,213 posts, read 1,543,956 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
When Macy's acquired Marshall Field's and turned its stores into Macy's, the era of the downtown store store and its importance was doomed to fall. Rapidly. Marshall Field's was a chain, of course, but Marshall Field's was also a store, a location.....one can easily make the argument that the State Street store was Marshall Field's. Indeed, it was the loss of the State Street store that was the real lament in Chicago. Sure, the chain counted a lot. And some stores where truly MF icons: Water Tower Place's Field's was a huge turning point for Michigan Avenue's Mag Mile. With Field there, the avenue "arrived". Two suburban stores also held sway: particularly Old Orchard in Skokie, Field's first venture into a truly major shopping center, OO was built around Field's and Field's was the main show by far. In Oakbrook, a similar, even larger Field's was built and it, too, was one of the chain's crowned jewels.

But it was State Street that was the real store. And The State Street store was rim doffermt;u. far more departments and selection, many promotional events, particularly fairs for a product or line theme. Restaurants and other special places. It never lost its cachet.

So no store...not just Macy's, but any that might have filled it, wouldn't have worked. Marshall Field's State Street was a true and only flagship and was run as a flagship; no other store could have come in and played that role.

Macy's Inc. shot itself in the foot by converting the Field's stores. It should have known that in Chicago, being Chicago, they wouldn't work. It killed a tourist destination that was the State Street store and it made a trip up its many (10 or so) levels meaningless since it was filled with the same crap that Macy's sold at all stores. Flagship, my ass.....State Street and Union Square may be called flagships, but they're not: the only flagship is Herald Square......and Chicago plays second fiddle as second city, while SF is an afterthought.

Chicago's different. We had two departments stores anchored on State Street one block apart, serving the basic upper middle market that was the bread and butter of higher end department stores: Marshall Field and Carson Pirie Scott. What made Field's and Carsons different was that they were virtually the "last holdouts", maintaining their independence from being acquired by the mass chains along the lines of Macy's, Federated, etc. (Field's unlike Carsons, gave up a tad of its independence earlier, when it was acquired by British tobacco company BATUS. But BATUS had no department stores and Field's was given full reign over its business as always, a true Seinfeld master of its own domain).

Field's and Carsons are what really made State Street State Street....and without them, the era of Loop department stores basically died as Field's converted to Macy's, its name whipped out, Carsons went on to shed its State Street store and recently the whole chain shut down.

Macy's did not have to go the route it did. If it felt it needed the Chicago market and wanted all consolidated under the Macy's name, largely for purposes of advertising, it could have taken all stores but State Street and made them into Macy's expect State Street. Or it could have taken State Street, Water Tower Place, Old Orchard, Northbrook Court, Woodfield and Oakbrook (the best of the Field's, the ones that would most thrive under the continued Field's name) and kept them as Marshall Field's while the other Field's stores converted to Macy's.

Or Macy's, Inc. could have decided to go with three high end department stores:
* Macy's, the most famous, a strong middle/middle plus level market with the best ability for nation wide saturation
* Bloomingdale's: upscale, trendy, cutting edge
* Marshall Field's" the truly complete, all encompassing upscale department store, capable of being carried bu Macy's beyond the various locations outside of Chicagoland that it at given times had expanded (and, in some cases, abandoned): Milwaukee, Columbus, Dallas, Houston

Or, how about t this: Macy's could have kept Marshall Field's on State as a stand along store (the rest of the chain being turned in Macy's). The hybrid store could have included the following:

* some of Marshall Field's best and most famous departments (28 Shop, Field's Afar, etc)

* a secelection of Macy's departments

* a selection of Bloomingdale's; more of the private venders that were included in Field's conversion of its lower level (previously budge store) into "Down Under".

Lots of missed opportunities. I real the day of department stores, if not completely dead, is dying and they will never be a big factor in downtown (or other locations) again. Still, Macy's could have carried this out much better and there were enough win/win opportunities that they could have applied....and didn't.
Yes of course you are right. Just noting the store still survived as a retail multi-level one store retail mall. Nothing will replace the original. But the Tiffany dome is still very much intact, the Walnut room. I believe the little ice cream shop on a higher level is still preserved and Macy's i believe did restorations to reopen the levels looking up? I thing tourist still stop to see it and of course Christmas they still do the windows that carries the tradition.

What is really left of the old Lord and Taylor inside ... now a Target? Yes it was a sad day Marshall Fields fell. But could have been worst for the building , that's basically what i meant. Not that Macy's compares today. Water Tower Place Mall on N Michigan Ave. with the former Chi icon now a Macy's too. Has the Mall still a tourist attraction and seems all stores filled on its like 8 levels? Built in the very early 70s it really still looks great as it was built. Clearly played a key in even downtown's true expansion to it today and N Michigan retailing.
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