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Old 10-20-2018, 01:24 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,112,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Wow, not exactly the answer I was expecting!
Why was it such an unexpected answer? btownboss was merely describing the SNE/NNE relationship as he saw it, not endorsing it. You were the one who semi-confronted him initially about the provincialism, as if by describing/explaining it he was in fact endorsing it.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:28 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,112,865 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
More than they do with much of the rest of the country.



Untrue. Connecticut and Rhode Island no longer have any county governments, but counties still exist as geographic designations. In Massachusetts it's a bit ore complicated. Nine counties have abolished their governments, while another six merely have inactive governments.

County government does exist in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont, but compared to the rest of the country it is rather weak. In Vermont counties are only responsible for law enforcement, and have elected officials but no independent taxing authority. In New Hampshire, counties only deal with sheriff services, prisons, and some publicly-run nursing homes. Maine probably has the strongest county government system, dealing with sheriffs, jails, deeds, courts, and public health, but compared to even county government in the Mid-Atlantic/Midwest, it's still a very restricted level of functionality, with more responsibility at the state or town level.



True, but the amount of unincorporated land in Vermont and New Hampshire is very limited. Less than 100 live in the unincorporated portions of Vermont, for example.



The difference is because there are no major cities in Northern New England. White birth rates are probably pretty similar (read low) throughout New England.

Rural portions of Western Mass, NE Connecticut, S Rhode Island, etc are all still pretty damn white.



IMHO urbanized area is a crappy measure of urbanity, because it includes many sparse wooded suburbs.



No, this is factually wrong. There was 19th Century French-Canadian migration into Northern New England, but there was also into Rhode Island and to a lesser extent Massachusetts. Outside of Southwestern Connecticut, there really isn't much NYC influence in Southern New England.



Well yeah, not having cities does that.



There is no permafrost even south of the St. Lawrence river, let alone in northern New England.

Regardless, the climate slowly gets warm the further south you go. Or coastal. Portland is milder in the winter than Western Massachusetts, despite being further north.



Not having poor minority residents/immigrants is the main reason for this.




The bottom line NH/VT/ME are different from CT/RI/MA as a whole. But the less urbanized portions of all of these states share more in common by far with northern New England than not. And hell, the tax-flight suburban sprawl in New Hampshire near the border with Massachusetts isn't any different from those kinds of suburbs in MA, CT, or RI.

The only real difference is Northern New England lacks big cities and significant nonwhite populations. That's it.
Make this guy a $500 winner already, city-data. Always bringing the info in impressive fashion.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:55 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,141 posts, read 9,923,476 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Why was it such an unexpected answer? btownboss was merely describing the SNE/NNE relationship as he saw it, not endorsing it. You were the one who semi-confronted him initially about the provincialism, as if by describing/explaining it he was in fact endorsing it.

You are really surprised it was an unexpected answer???

Because I did not expect Btown to say it was kind of provincial. Its not something you hear everyday, especially when someone is describing their own area.
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Old 10-20-2018, 08:44 PM
 
9,401 posts, read 9,563,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
You are really surprised it was an unexpected answer???

Because I did not expect Btown to say it was kind of provincial. Its not something you hear everyday, especially when someone is describing their own area.
I really don't know why it is shocking people identify more with their region than places outside their region.


Someone from North Carolina will identify better with someone from Arkansas than Rhode Island, despite being closer to the latter.
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Old 10-21-2018, 12:01 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,141 posts, read 9,923,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
I really don't know why it is shocking people identify more with their region than places outside their region.


Someone from North Carolina will identify better with someone from Arkansas than Rhode Island, despite being closer to the latter.
I would not say it is shocking to identify with a region, most of us do to some extent, and the way you put it here makes more sense.

But anyway, back in post 8 & 9, I said it looked like provincialism and I asked you if you ignore your largest neighbor, not to mention the rest of the country just because it is not part of New England.

I thought you would respond with something like it was a further distance from Boston so why should someone bypass the Whites or drive through the Berkshires to get to the Catskills, Poconos or Adirondacks. Something like that makes sense to me. What I did not expect is for you also to say it was provincial. That is the reason I said I was surprised.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
431 posts, read 190,268 times
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It's a socio-cultural regional concept enshrined in history, carried into the present for census convenience.

You can apply your argument to any region in the US. The coastal Mid-Atlantic is extremely different than the Appalachian Mid Atlantic, for instance.

If one applied themselves, they could divvy up the US by differences between streets. I'm not saying you're wrong: I personally distinguish northern and southern New England, but expecting non-Northeasterners to be familiar with all the stats you rattle off is just setting yourself up for disappointment. It's like someone from Alaska wondering why you don't know the socioeconomic/ethnic/religious/weather divisions in their area.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:01 AM
 
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
9,447 posts, read 18,363,374 times
Reputation: 11928
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I would not say it is shocking to identify with a region, most of us do to some extent, and the way you put it here makes more sense.

But anyway, back in post 8 & 9, I said it looked like provincialism and I asked you if you ignore your largest neighbor, not to mention the rest of the country just because it is not part of New England.

I thought you would respond with something like it was a further distance from Boston so why should someone bypass the Whites or drive through the Berkshires to get to the Catskills, Poconos or Adirondacks. Something like that makes sense to me. What I did not expect is for you also to say it was provincial. That is the reason I said I was surprised.
Well, having grown up there I will say yes, New England is very provincial. Don't want to paint too broad of a brush stroke in this picture because many New Englanders also do travel and relocate all over the country obviously. But what you'll run into a lot of is... there's New England and then there's the rest of the country perspectives. Basically the great unknown, or trite and superficial opinions on states and cities outside. But I've also found that most New Englander's if they are traveling outside, it's either to Florida and the Caribbean, or on a trans-Atlantic flight, and not as much travel within the states.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:42 AM
 
9,401 posts, read 9,563,269 times
Reputation: 5810
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I would not say it is shocking to identify with a region, most of us do to some extent, and the way you put it here makes more sense.

But anyway, back in post 8 & 9, I said it looked like provincialism and I asked you if you ignore your largest neighbor, not to mention the rest of the country just because it is not part of New England.

I thought you would respond with something like it was a further distance from Boston so why should someone bypass the Whites or drive through the Berkshires to get to the Catskills, Poconos or Adirondacks. Something like that makes sense to me. What I did not expect is for you also to say it was provincial. That is the reason I said I was surprised.
Expecting New Englanders to know Mid Atlantic states as well as mid Atlantic states like NY/NJ is like expected a person to know your Aunt as well as their own Aunt itís a dumb standard.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:57 AM
 
7,611 posts, read 9,467,758 times
Reputation: 8981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_SW_77 View Post
Well, having grown up there I will say yes, New England is very provincial. Don't want to paint too broad of a brush stroke in this picture because many New Englanders also do travel and relocate all over the country obviously. But what you'll run into a lot of is... there's New England and then there's the rest of the country perspectives. Basically the great unknown, or trite and superficial opinions on states and cities outside. But I've also found that most New Englander's if they are traveling outside, it's either to Florida and the Caribbean, or on a trans-Atlantic flight, and not as much travel within the states.
I would include some familiarity with NYC and DC, and the occasional venture to Chicago, or the West Coast ( LA, SF), for those that do travel. For some though, the limits are Boston, southern NH, coastal Maine, and Cape Cod..
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:46 AM
 
613 posts, read 510,091 times
Reputation: 715
https://goo.gl/maps/o7uRD5zRNmp

residential street in Bridgeport CT


https://goo.gl/maps/XYGT3a6ZcNB2

residential street 380 miles away in Bangor ME
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