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Northern New England (ME VT NH) and Southern New England (MA RI CT) have very very little in common.
Northern NE has counties, Southern NE does not.
Northern NE has unincorporated areas, Southern NE does not
Northern NE is 95% white. Southern NE is 70% White.
No Southern NE state has more than 57% of births to white mothers, all of these states have multiple majority-minority cities.
Northern NE has 1/2 small urbanized areas (Manchester/Nashua)
90% of Southern NE is an urbanized area.
Northern NE is closer to Quebec and Nova Scotia culturally.
Southern NE is closer to NY/NJ culturally.
Northern NE has 3 million people in 2.5X the land of Southern NE.
Southern NE has over 11 million people.
Northern NE is uniformly frigid and has permafrost in it coldest areas.
Southern NE has a much more temperate climate especially along the coast and in Southern CT.
Northern NE is more equitable
Southern NE has some of the biggest inequalities along class and race in the US.
Why do we say New England when they are really two separate regions for all things cultural.
The split between the two probably really become noticeable in the 1970s so why do we continue the charade. Am I missing something? Certain things and organizations recognize Southern New England and Northern New England but it isn't widespread enough. It is just pointless to talk about NE when MACTRI are so similar and NHVTME are so similar but they are so so different from each other. Is it because in the older white collective conscious of America the two are seen as the same? Or is it because generally, Americans outside of NE don't know how different they are?
Idk where you think Northern New England has permafrost.
There are cultural ties that are very deep. For example you get in state tuition at State Schools throughout New England if your major is not offered at your home state school. Obviously the sports teams, architecturally they are similar in housing stock. Regional Cuisines are consistent. Most out of “region” vacations by Sourhern Nee Englanders are to the North and vice versa. They have a singular state fair, Hockey is the premier sport at most Universities, all but Vermont spun off Massachusetts so they share a common heritage.
I could go on but you’re demographic argument could also be applied to Upstate vs Downstate NY being in the same region so it isn’t great.
Last edited by btownboss4; 10-18-2018 at 09:53 AM..
Northern New England (ME VT NH) and Southern New England (MA RI CT) have very very little in common.
Northern NE has counties, Southern NE does not.
Northern NE has unincorporated areas, Southern NE does not
Northern NE is 95% white. Southern NE is 70% White.
No Southern NE state has more than 57% of births to white mothers, all of these states have multiple majority-minority cities.
Northern NE has 1/2 small urbanized areas (Manchester/Nashua)
90% of Southern NE is an urbanized area.
Northern NE is closer to Quebec and Nova Scotia culturally.
Southern NE is closer to NY/NJ culturally.
Northern NE has 3 million people in 2.5X the land of Southern NE.
Southern NE has over 11 million people.
Northern NE is uniformly frigid and has permafrost in it coldest areas.
Southern NE has a much more temperate climate especially along the coast and in Southern CT.
Northern NE is more equitable
Southern NE has some of the biggest inequalities along class and race in the US.
Why do we say New England when they are really two separate regions for all things cultural.
The split between the two probably really become noticeable in the 1970s so why do we continue the charade. Am I missing something? Certain things and organizations recognize Southern New England and Northern New England but it isn't widespread enough. It is just pointless to talk about NE when MACTRI are so similar and NHVTME are so similar but they are so so different from each other. Is it because in the older white collective conscious of America the two are seen as the same? Or is it because generally, Americans outside of NE don't know how different they are?
Quite a number of reason I can think of.
--- Geography - Because New England is a geographical region.
--- History - There is a lot of pride in the long history of New England
--- Provincialism - Wall off the world with artificial borders
--- Tradition - The classic small New England town represents a more innocent, safer, and less hectic past - and modern New Englanders want to feel connected to it.
--- Sense of Place - (see tradition) much of southern New England is suburban today but they still try to connect themselves with the rural small towns of northern New England
Idk where you think Northern New England has permafrost.
There are cultural ties that are very deep. For example you get in state tuition at State Schools throughout New England if your major is not offered at your home state school. Obviously the sports teams, architecturally they are similar in housing stock. Regional Cuisines are consistent. Most out of “region” vacations by Sourhern Nee Englanders are to the North and vice versa. They have a singular state fair, Hicket is the premier sport at most Universities, all but Vermont spun off Massachusetts so they share a common heritage.
I could go on but you’re demographic argument could also be applied to Upstate vs Downstate NY being in the same region so it isn’t great.
As for my demographic argument UpState and Down State both have diversity to a measurable extent and its the same state, wer not talking a cultural region like NE, they are part of a legal unified entity.
Also, theres a New England State Fair?? The Big E?
Aside from that,
Regional cuisines are not consistent.
A Maine Italian sub is made very differently than a grinder in CT.
There is no Italian Ice/Coffee Milk/Red Wine and Vinegar on fries in Northern NE.
Poutine is popular in Northern NE, not Southern NE.
Dunkin Donuts is much more popular in Southern NE.
Hannaford is strictly Northern NE.
Maple Syrup is Vermont's thing.
Is Southern Ne cuisine more like Northern NE cuisine or NY/NJ cuisine that a very valid question.
I guess lobster/chowder is consistent tho...
I have never heard of "Hicket" so I don't think its the premier sport at most universities.
I'd say the fact that people vacation up to Northern NE from Southern NE and Vise Versa symbolizes an escape because you don't normally go there and it's very different than where you live.
Look at the gun laws in the two regions. WHy is Southern NE much more restrictive than Northern NE its due to very different modern-day cultures.
Heritage and historically I see the ties but when people say New England is this and that.. in 2018, it doesn't really hold water with me.
Like when people ask for advice about moving to NE from another region I think its owed to them to make a clear delineation between Southern and Northern NE first and then proceed because they offer two very different lifestyles for the most part.
It could be applied to pretty much every other larger region. What's the Mid-Atlantic exactly? It includes Upstate New York and the Virginia tidewater, the New Jersey shore as well as deepest Appalachia, Rust Belt cities and Maryland's Eastern shore.
Northern New England (ME VT NH) and Southern New England (MA RI CT) have very very little in common.
Northern NE has counties, Southern NE does not. Southern NE does have counties. Where did you get the notion it does not???
Northern NE has unincorporated areas, Southern NE does not
Northern NE is 95% white. Southern NE is 70% White.
No Southern NE state has more than 57% of births to white mothers, all of these states have multiple majority-minority cities.
Northern NE has 1/2 small urbanized areas (Manchester/Nashua)
90% of Southern NE is an urbanized area.
Northern NE is closer to Quebec and Nova Scotia culturally.
Southern NE is closer to NY/NJ culturally. BULLPUCKY! There is some solid anti-NYC sentiment in MA, which is part of southern NE.
Northern NE has 3 million people in 2.5X the land of Southern NE.
Southern NE has over 11 million people.
Northern NE is uniformly frigid and has permafrost in it coldest areas.
Southern NE has a much more temperate climate especially along the coast and in Southern CT.
Northern NE is more equitable
Southern NE has some of the biggest inequalities along class and race in the US.
Why do we say New England when they are really two separate regions for all things cultural.
The split between the two probably really become noticeable in the 1970s so why do we continue the charade. Am I missing something? Certain things and organizations recognize Southern New England and Northern New England but it isn't widespread enough. It is just pointless to talk about NE when MACTRI are so similar and NHVTME are so similar but they are so so different from each other. Is it because in the older white collective conscious of America the two are seen as the same? Or is it because generally, Americans outside of NE don't know how different they are?
It is because they are more similar than dissimilar.
“Hicket” puzzled me at first, but I bet it is a typo for “hockey.”
You have made it clear in your other posts you hate the general reservedness of New England people (compared with most other parts of the US). That still isn’t reason to pretend it is some kind of NYC/NJ extension.
As for my demographic argument UpState and Down State both have diversity to a measurable extent and its the same state, wer not talking a cultural region like NE, they are part of a legal unified entity.
Also, theres a New England State Fair?? The Big E?
Aside from that,
Regional cuisines are not consistent.
A Maine Italian sub is made very differently than a grinder in CT.
There is no Italian Ice/Coffee Milk/Red Wine and Vinegar on fries in Northern NE.
Poutine is popular in Northern NE, not Southern NE.
Dunkin Donuts is much more popular in Southern NE.
Hannaford is strictly Northern NE.
Maple Syrup is Vermont's thing.
Is Southern Ne cuisine more like Northern NE cuisine or NY/NJ cuisine that a very valid question.
I guess lobster/chowder is consistent tho...
I have never heard of "Hicket" so I don't think its the premier sport at most universities.
I'd say the fact that people vacation up to Northern NE from Southern NE and Vise Versa symbolizes an escape because you don't normally go there and it's very different than where you live.
Look at the gun laws in the two regions. WHy is Southern NE much more restrictive than Northern NE its due to very different modern-day cultures.
Heritage and historically I see the ties but when people say New England is this and that.. in 2018, it doesn't really hold water with me.
Like when people ask for advice about moving to NE from another region I think its owed to them to make a clear delineation between Southern and Northern NE first and then proceed because they offer two very different lifestyles for the most part.
Dunkin Donuts is just as prevelent in NH and ME as it is in Massachusetts.
Coffee Milk is very much a RI thing and I have never seen anyone ever put vinegar in fries. And there absolutely is Italian Ice in Northern New England.
Lobster, Chowder, Woopie Pies, Boston Creme Pie, Turkey Terrifics, Fuffernutters, etc are all consistent across New England.
The fact there is way more interchange in travel between MA/RI and Northern New England than there is to NY/NJ shows a cultural affinity. People know what Bar Harbor, Wells, Hampton, Conway, Stowe, Burlington, Laconia is people don’t know where any town nor named NYC, Buffalo, or Lack Placid is in the state of NY.
I meant to type Hockey as the main sport at most universities. From Yale to UMaine this is true.
Heritage absolutely matters that’s why Rural New England is the only rural area in America that reliably voted Democratic.
Another example is Candlepin bowling exists everywhere in New England and nowhere outside of it.
Also of all States that Border Massachusetts NY has by far the least interchange (There are more commuters between Maine and MA than MA and NY)
Dunkin Donuts is just as prevelent in NH and ME as it is in Massachusetts.
Coffee Milk is very much a RI thing and I have never seen anyone ever put vinegar in fries. And there absolutely is Italian Ice in Northern New England.
Lobster, Chowder, Woopie Pies, Boston Creme Pie, Turkey Terrifics, Fuffernutters, etc are all consistent across New England.
The fact there is way more interchange in travel between MA/RI and Northern New England than there is to NY/NJ shows a cultural affinity. People know what Bar Harbor, Wells, Hampton, Conway, Stowe, Burlington, Laconia is people don’t know where any town nor named NYC, Buffalo, or Lack Placid is in the state of NY.
I meant to type Hockey as the main sport at most universities. From Yale to UMaine this is true.
Heritage absolutely matters that’s why Rural New England is the only rural area in America that reliably voted Democratic.
Another example is Candlepin bowling exists everywhere in New England and nowhere outside of it.
Also of all States that Border Massachusetts NY has by far the least interchange (There are more commuters between Maine and MA than MA and NY)
I hate to say it but the bolded strikes me as an example of provincialism.
You basically ignore your largest neighbor, not to mention the rest of the country, because it is not part of New England? Not to give you a hard time, but let me ask, if New York, Pennsylvania or New Jersey suddenly became part of New England, would it then be okay to start learning the names of some of their towns?
I hate to say it but the bolded strikes me as an example of provincialism.
You basically ignore your largest neighbor, not to mention the rest of the country, because it is not part of New England? Not to give you a hard time, but let me ask, if New York, Pennsylvania or New Jersey suddenly became part of New England, would it then be okay to start learning the names of some of their towns?
That’s kind of the point, it is provincial and NH, VT and ME are in the in crowd and NY and NJ are not. That means something
New England is only so small that splitting up would only create more geographical confusion and the East Coast is already divided as it is anyway. The whole West Coast is defined as one reigion while the east coast is split into 3 regions.
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