Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
City population is important, as it determines what city government needs to do to support the population within their boundaries.
MSA population is less important, though offers a good overall view of the metropolitan area, but can, and often, include other smaller cities.
Jacksonville and Indianapolis are somewhat anomalies as they have either started from, or annexed the surrounding areas. It goes without saying why these cities have large populations, city-wise. Can anyone mention any large suburbs of Jacksonville or Indy?
Carmel will likely be at 100,000 people by the 2020 census and Fishers will be at around 85,000 by 2020. There's also Zionsville, think it'll be over 30k by 2020
Not so sure on Jacksonville.
They aren't so much anomalies as they are younger cities that had different growth apprpaches. You also have Columbus, Austin, Nashville, and Memphis all of which have over 600k in the city and at most 2 million in the MSA.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,547,924 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485
I don’t think it does.
Look at Raleigh-Durham or Dallas-Fort Worth.
According to Apple maps, the driving distance between the cities:
Raleigh to Durham - 25 Miles
Dallas to Fort Worth - 33 Miles
Washington to Baltimore - 39 miles
Raleigh has a CSA of 2.2 million
Washington has a CSA of 9.7 million
With that many more people, there’s going to be a lot more continuity. It just so happens Baltimore can stand on its own and has a strong image (for better or worse). Durham nor Fort Worth nor St. Paul could stand on their own. People hear those cities and think “isn’t that’s the name of Dallas’s airport?” Also, MARC keeps the two cities fairly connected and especially the region. Plenty of people live in say Laurel and Columbia and commute between both metros and go to both equally.
I work in Tyson’s Corner and on my team, 2 people of like 14 live east of Annapolis, MD. It’s a very interconnected region particularly so because Washington is such an important employment hub (not that Baltimore isn’t but DC is a fairly important area.)
Baltimore is just an important midsized city as opposed to a Fort Worth type of place. So it has an independent identity. I don’t think it’s misleading to conflate the two.
Absolutely.
The “Truth” is 9-9.7 million people actually live in and around the counties surrounding DC and Baltimore and it is VERY contiguous. All in about the same land mass as a city like Houston or Dallas.
This does distort anything, this is the truth. This doesn’t mean the city propers of either should be considered 9 million because they aren’t, and neither is Chicago’s city proper either, but it too has contiguous suburbs of its singular city that are 9-10 million when added together.
According to Apple maps, the driving distance between the cities:
Raleigh to Durham - 25 Miles
Dallas to Fort Worth - 33 Miles
Washington to Baltimore - 39 miles
Raleigh has a CSA of 2.2 million
Washington has a CSA of 9.7 million
With that many more people, there’s going to be a lot more continuity. It just so happens Baltimore can stand on its own and has a strong image (for better or worse). Durham nor Fort Worth nor St. Paul could stand on their own. People hear those cities and think “isn’t that’s the name of Dallas’s airport?” Also, MARC keeps the two cities fairly connected and especially the region. Plenty of people live in say Laurel and Columbia and commute between both metros and go to both equally.
I work in Tyson’s Corner and on my team, 2 people of like 14 live east of Annapolis, MD. It’s a very interconnected region particularly so because Washington is such an important employment hub (not that Baltimore isn’t but DC is a fairly important area.)
Baltimore is just an important midsized city as opposed to a Fort Worth type of place. So it has an independent identity. I don’t think it’s misleading to conflate the two.
While I wouldn't put Fort Worth on the level of Baltimore when it comes to an independent identity, and a big part of it that it is much older than Fort Worth as a city, I think you are really selling the city short here. I don't think the DFW CSA is a good comparison to DC-Baltimore CSA to be quite honest.
The “Truth” is 9-9.7 million people actually live in and around the counties surrounding DC and Baltimore and it is VERY contiguous. All in about the same land mass as a city like Houston or Dallas.
This does distort anything, this is the truth. This doesn’t mean the city propers of either should be considered 9 million because they aren’t, and neither is Chicago’s city proper either, but it too has contiguous suburbs of its singular city that are 9-10 million when added together.
Yes, suburbs, not other cities with their own MSA. It's not that hard. SO, which is it, is Baltimore the main city, or DC the main city? With Chicago, it's the only city.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,547,924 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade
While I wouldn't put Fort Worth on the level of Baltimore when it comes to an independent identity, and a big part of it that it is much older than Fort Worth as a city, I think you are really selling the city short here. I don't think the DFW CSA is a good comparison to DC-Baltimore CSA to be quite honest.
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, it’s more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean
Yes, suburbs, not other cities with their own MSA. It's not that hard. SO, which is it, is Baltimore the main city, or DC the main city? With Chicago, it's the only city.
See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, it’s more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.
See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
I don't have a beef with the Census...I just wonder why you're comparing CSA to Chicago's CSA, which is, basically, the same as it's MSA. It doesn't have another MSA to include in it's CSA. THAT's my point. You're combining two major cities, and comparing it to one.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,547,924 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean
I don't have a beef with the Census...I just wonder why you're comparing CSA to Chicago's CSA, which is, basically, the same as it's MSA. It doesn't have another MSA to include in it's CSA. THAT's my point. You're combining two major cities, and comparing it to one.
I don't get what you don't get. I'm not the one who compares CSA's to MSA's. What sense would that make? Going back to previous threads created by other people, when there was an actual comparison being made, I displayed to you how the two areas stack up in both land mass and population at the MSA level. The fact that one region has two major cities or MSA's in it and another has one major city or MSA is irrelevant because we were talking about an entire "region".
Chicago, Houston, Atlanta etc are single entity regions or metro areas etc. SF Bay Area, DC-Baltimore, and DFW, even LA to some extent, are multi-nodal, and some will have more than one central core city within a 10k sq mi radius or less (which is about standard size of a large US metro). What's not to understand? They're different. This is common in places like China. Not all of these metro/regions are designed or created equal. Which is why each metric matters. Compare what you want, just stop trying to diminish certain metrics and their validity.
Last edited by the resident09; 12-22-2018 at 06:41 PM..
City population is worthless as anything other than a defining boundary of where a governments influence starts and ends. If you need to know where civic boundaries start and end then sure, city pop. could help. Using city population as a comparison metric to another city will tell you nothing.
Jacksonville and San Francisco have virtually identical city populations. San Francisco has the amenities, shopping, air travel, sporting options ect. available to it that a 6-8 million person MSA does. Whereas Jacksonville is more comparable to Buffalo. MSA is by far the most consistent metric to determine what a city will offer within it's sphere of influence. It is also used by the OMB to assist in allocating regional funding. Because MSA may sometimes contain smaller satellites within it's orbit is inconsequential. Suburbs are not cities, they are governmental parasites that do not exist without the host.
I understand what you are saying, but I think you may have missed my point. Cities are important for those who live within them. Police, Fire, other emergency services, and a multitude of city functions that are too numerous to mention here. Yes, the metro area is a better snapshot of the "entire" area, and the CMSA is good for regional advertising and transportation, but that is about it. The tax base of any city is important to maintaing a strong inner city, despite the metro. Finally, a strong central city makes the suburbs or outer cities stronger.
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, it’s more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.
See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
I'm saying that DFW shouldn't be mentioned in comparison to even the large region. Because it's apples to oranges. He mentioned the distance between Dallas and Fort Worth. But that's downtown to downtown. The easternmost part of Fort Worth city is only 10 miles west of the westernmost part of Dallas city. The best comparison for a region is probably the Bay Area or Boston-Providence.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
