U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-22-2018, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,114 posts, read 2,525,187 times
Reputation: 2276

Advertisements

Washington and Oregon are still gaining population. Portland, Oregon's MSA should stay at 25.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-22-2018, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,514 posts, read 9,054,749 times
Reputation: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnwguy2 View Post
City population is important, as it determines what city government needs to do to support the population within their boundaries.

MSA population is less important, though offers a good overall view of the metropolitan area, but can, and often, include other smaller cities.

Jacksonville and Indianapolis are somewhat anomalies as they have either started from, or annexed the surrounding areas. It goes without saying why these cities have large populations, city-wise. Can anyone mention any large suburbs of Jacksonville or Indy?
Carmel will likely be at 100,000 people by the 2020 census and Fishers will be at around 85,000 by 2020. There's also Zionsville, think it'll be over 30k by 2020

Not so sure on Jacksonville.

They aren't so much anomalies as they are younger cities that had different growth apprpaches. You also have Columbus, Austin, Nashville, and Memphis all of which have over 600k in the city and at most 2 million in the MSA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,978 posts, read 3,458,387 times
Reputation: 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
I donít think it does.

Look at Raleigh-Durham or Dallas-Fort Worth.

According to Apple maps, the driving distance between the cities:

Raleigh to Durham - 25 Miles
Dallas to Fort Worth - 33 Miles
Washington to Baltimore - 39 miles


Raleigh has a CSA of 2.2 million
Washington has a CSA of 9.7 million

With that many more people, thereís going to be a lot more continuity. It just so happens Baltimore can stand on its own and has a strong image (for better or worse). Durham nor Fort Worth nor St. Paul could stand on their own. People hear those cities and think ďisnít thatís the name of Dallasís airport?Ē Also, MARC keeps the two cities fairly connected and especially the region. Plenty of people live in say Laurel and Columbia and commute between both metros and go to both equally.

I work in Tysonís Corner and on my team, 2 people of like 14 live east of Annapolis, MD. Itís a very interconnected region particularly so because Washington is such an important employment hub (not that Baltimore isnít but DC is a fairly important area.)


Baltimore is just an important midsized city as opposed to a Fort Worth type of place. So it has an independent identity. I donít think itís misleading to conflate the two.
Absolutely.

The ďTruthĒ is 9-9.7 million people actually live in and around the counties surrounding DC and Baltimore and it is VERY contiguous. All in about the same land mass as a city like Houston or Dallas.

This does distort anything, this is the truth. This doesnít mean the city propers of either should be considered 9 million because they arenít, and neither is Chicagoís city proper either, but it too has contiguous suburbs of its singular city that are 9-10 million when added together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,056,837 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
I donít think it does.

Look at Raleigh-Durham or Dallas-Fort Worth.

According to Apple maps, the driving distance between the cities:

Raleigh to Durham - 25 Miles
Dallas to Fort Worth - 33 Miles
Washington to Baltimore - 39 miles


Raleigh has a CSA of 2.2 million
Washington has a CSA of 9.7 million

With that many more people, thereís going to be a lot more continuity. It just so happens Baltimore can stand on its own and has a strong image (for better or worse). Durham nor Fort Worth nor St. Paul could stand on their own. People hear those cities and think ďisnít thatís the name of Dallasís airport?Ē Also, MARC keeps the two cities fairly connected and especially the region. Plenty of people live in say Laurel and Columbia and commute between both metros and go to both equally.

I work in Tysonís Corner and on my team, 2 people of like 14 live east of Annapolis, MD. Itís a very interconnected region particularly so because Washington is such an important employment hub (not that Baltimore isnít but DC is a fairly important area.)


Baltimore is just an important midsized city as opposed to a Fort Worth type of place. So it has an independent identity. I donít think itís misleading to conflate the two.
While I wouldn't put Fort Worth on the level of Baltimore when it comes to an independent identity, and a big part of it that it is much older than Fort Worth as a city, I think you are really selling the city short here. I don't think the DFW CSA is a good comparison to DC-Baltimore CSA to be quite honest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 03:37 PM
 
2,007 posts, read 1,018,456 times
Reputation: 2672
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
Absolutely.

The “Truth” is 9-9.7 million people actually live in and around the counties surrounding DC and Baltimore and it is VERY contiguous. All in about the same land mass as a city like Houston or Dallas.

This does distort anything, this is the truth. This doesn’t mean the city propers of either should be considered 9 million because they aren’t, and neither is Chicago’s city proper either, but it too has contiguous suburbs of its singular city that are 9-10 million when added together.
Yes, suburbs, not other cities with their own MSA. It's not that hard. SO, which is it, is Baltimore the main city, or DC the main city? With Chicago, it's the only city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 04:01 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,978 posts, read 3,458,387 times
Reputation: 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
While I wouldn't put Fort Worth on the level of Baltimore when it comes to an independent identity, and a big part of it that it is much older than Fort Worth as a city, I think you are really selling the city short here. I don't think the DFW CSA is a good comparison to DC-Baltimore CSA to be quite honest.
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, it’s more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Yes, suburbs, not other cities with their own MSA. It's not that hard. SO, which is it, is Baltimore the main city, or DC the main city? With Chicago, it's the only city.
See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 04:10 PM
 
2,007 posts, read 1,018,456 times
Reputation: 2672
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, itís more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.




See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
I don't have a beef with the Census...I just wonder why you're comparing CSA to Chicago's CSA, which is, basically, the same as it's MSA. It doesn't have another MSA to include in it's CSA. THAT's my point. You're combining two major cities, and comparing it to one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 06:27 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,978 posts, read 3,458,387 times
Reputation: 2450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
I don't have a beef with the Census...I just wonder why you're comparing CSA to Chicago's CSA, which is, basically, the same as it's MSA. It doesn't have another MSA to include in it's CSA. THAT's my point. You're combining two major cities, and comparing it to one.
I don't get what you don't get. I'm not the one who compares CSA's to MSA's. What sense would that make? Going back to previous threads created by other people, when there was an actual comparison being made, I displayed to you how the two areas stack up in both land mass and population at the MSA level. The fact that one region has two major cities or MSA's in it and another has one major city or MSA is irrelevant because we were talking about an entire "region".

Chicago, Houston, Atlanta etc are single entity regions or metro areas etc. SF Bay Area, DC-Baltimore, and DFW, even LA to some extent, are multi-nodal, and some will have more than one central core city within a 10k sq mi radius or less (which is about standard size of a large US metro). What's not to understand? They're different. This is common in places like China. Not all of these metro/regions are designed or created equal. Which is why each metric matters. Compare what you want, just stop trying to diminish certain metrics and their validity.

Last edited by the resident09; 12-22-2018 at 06:41 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Washington State desert
5,548 posts, read 3,693,741 times
Reputation: 4136
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
City population is worthless as anything other than a defining boundary of where a governments influence starts and ends. If you need to know where civic boundaries start and end then sure, city pop. could help. Using city population as a comparison metric to another city will tell you nothing.

Jacksonville and San Francisco have virtually identical city populations. San Francisco has the amenities, shopping, air travel, sporting options ect. available to it that a 6-8 million person MSA does. Whereas Jacksonville is more comparable to Buffalo. MSA is by far the most consistent metric to determine what a city will offer within it's sphere of influence. It is also used by the OMB to assist in allocating regional funding. Because MSA may sometimes contain smaller satellites within it's orbit is inconsequential. Suburbs are not cities, they are governmental parasites that do not exist without the host.
I understand what you are saying, but I think you may have missed my point. Cities are important for those who live within them. Police, Fire, other emergency services, and a multitude of city functions that are too numerous to mention here. Yes, the metro area is a better snapshot of the "entire" area, and the CMSA is good for regional advertising and transportation, but that is about it. The tax base of any city is important to maintaing a strong inner city, despite the metro. Finally, a strong central city makes the suburbs or outer cities stronger.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2018, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,056,837 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
DFW is a MSA... DC-Baltimore is a real multi nodal CSA, itís more of a large region than one singular metro, that is the difference.




See above comment, not sure how many times I have to repeat the same thing to you thread after thread. Take your beef up or questions up with the Census.
I'm saying that DFW shouldn't be mentioned in comparison to even the large region. Because it's apples to oranges. He mentioned the distance between Dallas and Fort Worth. But that's downtown to downtown. The easternmost part of Fort Worth city is only 10 miles west of the westernmost part of Dallas city. The best comparison for a region is probably the Bay Area or Boston-Providence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top