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Old 11-17-2018, 06:21 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Baltimore is working in downtown 3.0
The Central Business District
John's Hopkins
Harbor East/Harbor point

All three areas currently have projects under construction.
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Old 11-17-2018, 07:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Of course it is one incredibly big downtown, a downtown big enough that it comes in the form of many neighborhoods.

Why the sense that downtown Chicago is something smaller in the mix, that CBD=Downtown? That's because geography and topography worked together to create what is arguably the most definable CBD in the nation. And if that were not the case, the only places I can think that would compare with it would be Lower Manhattan and the Golden Triangle, both of which by rivers (Hudson and East in the former, Allegheny and Mongahela in the later) created a true point that enclosed downtown.

Chicago's traditional downtown, the neighborhood that was synonymous with downtown (even though it really wasn't) is the Loop. Actually island like, this tight piece of real state has water borders (Lake Michigan to the east, Chicago River to the north and west) and one non-water border of separation (south loop rail yards of old). Why was Chicago at the forefront of skyscraper development: precious Loop real estate forced things to go up and go high to grow.

It is highly defined, distinctively and famously named and iconic and the Loop grabbed the title of downtown for ages even though, as I stated earlier, it hadn't been the sum total of "downtown" for ages. Truth is that with the opening of the Michigan Avenue bridge in 1920 and with it Michigan Avenue extended and widened north of the river and it replaced nondescript "Pine Street", the Mag Mile environs were well on the way to being part of downtown Chicago. By the 1970s (the time when urban decay had shaken the Loop's lofty position, the Mag Mile exploded with high rise new construction and the genteel carriage trade street became a high end luxury power. The opening of Water Tower Place in the 70s changed everything and with it, downtown sprouted two tall Marshall Field's stores, on State and now very much on Michigan. This was the era we started to talk about as the Super Loop. During this explosive era, Chicago was able to do what no other city would have been able to do: capitalize on the surprising large swaths of rail land on the outskirts of the Loop and turn them into massively developed parts of downtown. Indeed the very two major commuter rail stations (Union Station and N'western/Ogilvie) west of the river spiked its surrounds as business desirable. The Loop had jumped the river.

High central city land prices on the Mag Mile forced the large complex of art galleries to move from Michigan Avenue, to the west, into the warehouse district of River North....which became from of downtown in exceedingly short time. And on and on....to the south, the growing complex of McCormick Place and the development of air rights allowed for the spectacular high rise of the South Loop. And downtown jumped another landmark, the Kennedy Expy, west to Greektown and beyond, an area percolating with new business, very high tech and innovative.

And then on to today where the most interesting phenomenium works to make Downtown. Dave is right: this is super-downtown-on-steroids. And another vaunted asset is tying the parts of the whole in an incredible way, strengthening the bonds and creating a district working as one.

The catalyst: the old sewer is being turned into a river of gold. The Chicago River in some kind of mind boggling way has appeared to have gained parity with the best and one of the most highly praised waterfronts in urban America: Lake Michigan. River and Lake both define Chicago. And the hottest property in the core these days is the developmental corridors that line the main, north, and south branches of the river where mega projects are afoot, connections fortified (think expansion of water taxis through the opening new areas of the north and south branch).

I have always realized that my "borders" of downtown Chicago tend to be well titled to the wide end, but in many ways, I do see downtown Chicago (or Central Chicago, or Core Chicago, or the Greater Loop) traveling south from Lincoln Park's southern boundary at North Avenue in the Gold Coast, down the lakefront past the near north side and the Loop and pushing south to McCormick Place (now in an area rebranded as "McCormick Square" where critical mass is speeding along (new arena, new hotels, renovation of the old Motor Row showroom areas). So if I give it from North Ave. to Cermak on a north/south basis, I'll go with Lake Michigan to arguably west through the Westgate/Fulton Mkt district to feel comfortable calling both the United Center and the medical center as being the periphery of the downtown.....while again fully admitting that my limits tend towards the extreme side. But no matter how you define its limits, it is an incredible city core today by any standard.
Chicago's real downtown: Loop, that is. River North/Mag. Miles just an extended urban district from Loop. The city and state officials begin coining the term "Downtown" of the whole area from Mc Cormick convention center to Lincoln Park in the 90's. It sure so wasn't downtown north of Chicago's river. It was Near North. South of Congress: Near South Side. River North is not downtown 2.0, just another urban district with its own entity, at least was planned that way.
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Old 11-17-2018, 07:52 PM
 
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They're correct on Baltimore's downtown 2.0: Inner Harbor East and Harbor Point which equates downtown 3.0
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:57 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,986 posts, read 3,466,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Baltimore is working in downtown 3.0
The Central Business District
John's Hopkins
Harbor East/Harbor point

All three areas currently have projects under construction.
What about Port Covington?
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:00 PM
 
3,228 posts, read 1,558,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the topper View Post
Chicago's real downtown: Loop, that is. River North/Mag. Miles just an extended urban district from Loop. The city and state officials begin coining the term "Downtown" of the whole area from Mc Cormick convention center to Lincoln Park in the 90's. It sure so wasn't downtown north of Chicago's river. It was Near North. South of Congress: Near South Side. River North is not downtown 2.0, just another urban district with its own entity, at least was planned that way.
Chicago NEVER PEGGED its downtown was the Convention center to Lincoln Park. Real Estate eights like to claim a GREATER CORE IS basically downtown neighborhoods too.

The irony to fight for one downtown core .... when other cities claim a few.....

Again, i gave the link to Chicago's city portal. It declares its CBD. The Loop and Lakeview East .... gets lumped with the Loop to Lake Michigan today south of the river (in general not officially) A potion of the Near West side to a block west of the Kennedy expressway and the Near North neighborhoods of Streeterville and River North with a small section of the Gold Coast.

That is the DOWNTOWN as even Wikipedia notes cities that their CBD is also ther downtown.

No one visits Chicago .... and thinks north of the river isn't being downtown with the shopping and premier hotels and nightlife. As another noted ..... the Loop is ALSO A NEIGHBRHOOD TECHNICALLY also. One of the 77 official neighborhoods.

Chicago was not quick to add the Near North neighborhoods as its core too. It evolve to be CULLY WORTHY OF INCLUSION. It could've included Old Town and more of the Gold Coast to the South Loop. It did not officially.

Chicago did not evolve other CBD's thru the city of a downtown 2.0 or 3.0. It merely grew to be more then just the Loop that still is with its main Financial District.

Half of this skyline is not excluded from one downtown, CBD or Core. But there is also a Greater downtown etc. That Real Estate to others use too. Locals don't say downtown for just the Loop. If they mean jut the Loop? They say the Loop.

Suburbanites are known to include Wrigley Field thru the Museum of Science and Industry. If they too mean going to the Loop? They say the Loop or location most times.

The core, CBD or Downtown Chicago..... is not a huge area as it is. If jut the Loop alone ... it actually would be small.

As i said before .... Big John to Big Willy and Big Trump in the middle .... is Chicago's DOWNTOWN that no one should deny or think twice about.

This first picture -- shows Lakeview East or New East Side (not officially the Loop or Near North) on left and Near North that includes River North and Streeterville north of the river in front.

Second picture -- Lakeshore East and Streeterville ands some of River North.

Do you believe this is not officially part of downtown Chicago?
Attached Thumbnails
Cities with downtown 2.0-chicagos-downtown-north-loop-.jpg   Cities with downtown 2.0-north-half-downtown-chicago-lake-michigan  
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,798 posts, read 19,032,857 times
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In 2018, River North is not a 2nd downtown. It's part of downtown - as is Streeterville and parts of South Loop and Gold Coast. If you are going to claim that River North is downtown 2.0 though and not include Streeterville and Gold Coast in that, then it's a bit crazy. All those areas formed together are pretty seamless - Streeterville and River North used to have a lot of vacant land and a lot of warehouses. No typical warehouses and what not anymore though River North on the very western edge still has some vacant land. But that is besides the point. These areas really aren't considered a second downtown these days - they're considered part of downtown now.

The notion that the Loop in Chicago is only considered downtown is a really outdated notion, at least 20-25 years old type of idea. That definitely used to be true before the emergence of the areas just north of the river. The only people who still hold this belief are people who haven't lived or spent tons of time downtown in the last 15-20 years, those who moved away in the 90s or before, or those who don't really know much about Chicago in 2018 (maybe some intersection here in the groups). The accepted fact by most Chicagoans today who understand the city is that downtown = Loop, River North, Streeterville, Gold Coast, and South Loop (though I wouldn't put ALL of Gold Coast or South Loop as downtown, but at least half of each is).

Here is the official tourism wing of the City of Chicago Government listing the downtown neighborhoods. I don't agree with Chinatown but the rest is right in how people think in 2018. But then, what does the government of the City of Chicago know about its own city, amirite?

https://www.choosechicago.com/neighborhoods/downtown/
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:33 PM
 
3,063 posts, read 1,810,725 times
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Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Chicago NEVER PEGGED its downtown was the Convention center to Lincoln Park. Real Estate eights like to claim a GREATER CORE IS basically downtown neighborhoods too.

The irony to fight for one downtown core .... when other cities claim a few.....

Again, i gave the link to Chicago's city portal. It declares its CBD. The Loop and Lakeview East .... gets lumped with the Loop to Lake Michigan today south of the river (in general not officially) A potion of the Near West side to a block west of the Kennedy expressway and the Near North neighborhoods of Streeterville and River North with a small section of the Gold Coast.

That is the DOWNTOWN as even Wikipedia notes cities that their CBD is also ther downtown.

No one visits Chicago .... and thinks north of the river isn't being downtown with the shopping and premier hotels and nightlife. As another noted ..... the Loop is ALSO A NEIGHBRHOOD TECHNICALLY also. One of the 77 official neighborhoods.

Chicago was not quick to add the Near North neighborhoods as its core too. It evolve to be CULLY WORTHY OF INCLUSION. It could've included Old Town and more of the Gold Coast to the South Loop. It did not officially.

Chicago did not evolve other CBD's thru the city of a downtown 2.0 or 3.0. It merely grew to be more then just the Loop that still is with its main Financial District.

Half of this skyline is not excluded from one downtown, CBD or Core. But there is also a Greater downtown etc. That Real Estate to others use too. Locals don't say downtown for just the Loop. If they mean jut the Loop? They say the Loop.

Suburbanites are known to include Wrigley Field thru the Museum of Science and Industry. If they too mean going to the Loop? They say the Loop or location most times.

The core, CBD or Downtown Chicago..... is not a huge area as it is. If jut the Loop alone ... it actually would be small.

As i said before .... Big John to Big Willy and Big Trump in the middle .... is Chicago's DOWNTOWN that no one should deny or think twice about.

This first picture -- shows Lakeview East or New East Side (not officially the Loop or Near North) on left and Near North that includes River North and Streeterville north of the river in front.

Second picture -- Lakeshore East and Streeterville ands some of River North.

Do you believe this is not officially part of downtown Chicago?
Downtown includes Lake Shore Drive East and Loop. Any places else: not downtown. So, yes, this is not part of Downtown Chicago( N. of the river) in the pictures.
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:36 PM
 
3,063 posts, read 1,810,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
In 2018, River North is not a 2nd downtown. It's part of downtown - as is Streeterville and parts of South Loop and Gold Coast. If you are going to claim that River North is downtown 2.0 though and not include Streeterville and Gold Coast in that, then it's a bit crazy. All those areas formed together are pretty seamless - Streeterville and River North used to have a lot of vacant land and a lot of warehouses. No typical warehouses and what not anymore though River North on the very western edge still has some vacant land. But that is besides the point. These areas really aren't considered a second downtown these days - they're considered part of downtown now.

The notion that the Loop in Chicago is only considered downtown is a really outdated notion, at least 20-25 years old type of idea. That definitely used to be true before the emergence of the areas just north of the river. The only people who still hold this belief are people who haven't lived or spent tons of time downtown in the last 15-20 years, those who moved away in the 90s or before, or those who don't really know much about Chicago in 2018 (maybe some intersection here in the groups). The accepted fact by most Chicagoans today who understand the city is that downtown = Loop, River North, Streeterville, Gold Coast, and South Loop.

Here is the official tourism wing of the City of Chicago Government listing the downtown neighborhoods. I don't agree with Chinatown but the rest is right in how people think in 2018. But then, what does the government of the City of Chicago know about its own city, amirite?

https://www.choosechicago.com/neighborhoods/downtown/
This is what I've been experienced from the local people back in the 70's and up to 90's. Before? I didn't go to Chicago. I've been going to this city since the mid 70's. This whole idea of Downtown Chi town including Streeterville and Gold Coast is just recent years as area beyond Loop became more dense relatively. yes, it's downtown 2.0: extended area from downtown
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,798 posts, read 19,032,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the topper View Post
This is what I've been experienced from the local people back in the 70's and up to 90's. Before? I didn't go to Chicago. I've been going to this city since the mid 70's.
The only locals who think this way are ones who don't live anywhere close to downtown and don't spend time there and have lived there for a long time. Only Loop was considered downtown until about the late 90s - and really by the mid 2000s most people had accepted that these other areas were part of it due to the rapid expansion of the downtown area creating a seamless urban experience and also many, many jobs spreading to River North and Streeterville

I lived on the border of Gold Coast and River North for nearly a decade until the very end of 2016. I cannot recall meeting one person, a local, who didn't consider River North, Streeterville, etc part of downtown aside from old school people on the far fringes of the city who never get out of their neighborhoods.

That's cool you've been visiting for awhile, but my life experience living there for awhile - it was pretty well accepted by everyone, including the city government, that these areas are considered "downtown"
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Old 11-17-2018, 10:42 PM
 
3,063 posts, read 1,810,725 times
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
The only locals who think this way are ones who don't live anywhere close to downtown and don't spend time there and have lived there for a long time. Only Loop was considered downtown until about the late 90s - and really by the mid 2000s most people had accepted that these other areas were part of it.

I lived on the border of Gold Coast and River North for nearly a decade until the very end of 2016. I cannot recall meeting one person, a local, who didn't consider River North, Streeterville, etc part of downtown aside from old school people on the far fringes of the city who never get out of their neighborhoods.

That's cool you've been visiting for awhile, but my life experience living there for awhile - it was pretty well accepted by everyone, including the city government, that these areas are considered "downtown"
Yes, by 1999, Governor and the state declared that the whole area is now downtown. It's fairly recent phenomenon.
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