U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-18-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5336

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Milwaukee's Third Ward...within a couple blocks of downtown, and vastly popular for shopping. It has West Elm, Anthropologie, and Restoration Hardware.
once again, I will cling to the notion that adjacent areas to what was once downtown now are downtown. Third Ward today very much is downtown. What would someone identify as the "heart of downtown Milwaukee"? for me, it would probably be the stretch of Wisconsin Avenue stretching both east and (a bit more heavily) west of the Milwaukee River.

The Third Ward is, maybe, a half mile walk south of that stretch of road. It is downtown. If I were staying at the Pfister and I said to my wife, "let's take a little walk and get a variety of tasty treats to bring back to our room, I'd say the Milwaukee Public Market in the Third Ward would be a very good choice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-18-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Chicago NEVER PEGGED its downtown was the Convention center to Lincoln Park. Real Estate eights like to claim a GREATER CORE IS basically downtown neighborhoods too.

The irony to fight for one downtown core .... when other cities claim a few.....

Again, i gave the link to Chicago's city portal. It declares its CBD. The Loop and Lakeview East .... gets lumped with the Loop to Lake Michigan today south of the river (in general not officially) A potion of the Near West side to a block west of the Kennedy expressway and the Near North neighborhoods of Streeterville and River North with a small section of the Gold Coast.

That is the DOWNTOWN as even Wikipedia notes cities that their CBD is also ther downtown.

No one visits Chicago .... and thinks north of the river isn't being downtown with the shopping and premier hotels and nightlife. As another noted ..... the Loop is ALSO A NEIGHBRHOOD TECHNICALLY also. One of the 77 official neighborhoods.

Chicago was not quick to add the Near North neighborhoods as its core too. It evolve to be CULLY WORTHY OF INCLUSION. It could've included Old Town and more of the Gold Coast to the South Loop. It did not officially.

Chicago did not evolve other CBD's thru the city of a downtown 2.0 or 3.0. It merely grew to be more then just the Loop that still is with its main Financial District.

Half of this skyline is not excluded from one downtown, CBD or Core. But there is also a Greater downtown etc. That Real Estate to others use too. Locals don't say downtown for just the Loop. If they mean jut the Loop? They say the Loop.

Suburbanites are known to include Wrigley Field thru the Museum of Science and Industry. If they too mean going to the Loop? They say the Loop or location most times.

The core, CBD or Downtown Chicago..... is not a huge area as it is. If jut the Loop alone ... it actually would be small.

As i said before .... Big John to Big Willy and Big Trump in the middle .... is Chicago's DOWNTOWN that no one should deny or think twice about.

This first picture -- shows Lakeview East or New East Side (not officially the Loop or Near North) on left and Near North that includes River North and Streeterville north of the river in front.

Second picture -- Lakeshore East and Streeterville ands some of River North.

Do you believe this is not officially part of downtown Chicago?
Ah, the thinking man, the guru, managed to nail this one down tight in less than ten words. What Dave said is the answer; all the rest is commentary.

and, what did Dave get from so identifying: the absolutely best, most spectacular, most core-like core, the best center-of-everything, the true emerald city downtown/center city/core in America. Bare none. Hell, we could market that in "The City Second to None"

Competition simply does not exist. The only so called "competition" would be found in the lower two thirds of Manhattan and this long, incredibly linear stretch is no core. In fact, Manhattan never could be what it is if it had a solid core. Manhattan was blessed by this linearity because it could stick and few north-south subway lines underground and end up with everybody a few blocks away from any of them. Topography and geography offered New York a connectivity that is unmatched anywhere on this planet. And there would have been no New York without it; the ingredient was essential.

Only New York, among American cities, would find its core (Midtown) miles away from the original (downtown) core. Only New York could have a core whose main streets are given such large double digit numbers as 34th, 42nd, 57th. Only New York could have invented the word "downtown" because lower Manhattan was as down as you could get......yet along with Philly (Center City) is arguably one of only two US cities where the main core is a place not called "downtown." How's that for irony. New York "exported" the term downtown....and yet in San Francisco or Boston or Portland or Cleveland, downtown is about as far "up" as you can go.

New York's core works, and works so well, because it is.....well.....coreless. New York's non-core works so well that it can gladly concede to Chicago the title of The Ultimate Downtown Core in America.

Hell yes, Chicago. Ah, Chicago......the ultimate spoke-and-wheel, the ultimate concentric rings that would put a redwood to shame.

Our core was pinpointed. And spread outward from it. Our downtown managed to mix lake with river and a flatness one could die for (the ultimate palette for core urban development) with happily not a hill in sight (you see, Chicago is to flatness what San Francisco is to hills....and, as such, both are about as good as it gets). And in this pinpointed spread are beach (and endless ocean spreads eastward, but it is the gentle kind and you actually can build right on it), park, retail, residential to the hilt, commercial, cultural (mind boggling culture...what city manages to pack the Art Institute, Museum of Contemporary Art, History Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Field Museum, Adler Planetarium into its very center?)

Gosh, I need to stop: this guy is beginning (?) to sound like the ultimate homer, and rather obnoxiously I may add simply because....well...quite frankly......he is. Mea culpa. You don't have to berate me. I'm on to my flaws. And please note though homer-he-may-be, you will not find a single insult or beration (yea, I invented the term: live with it) of any other city. Nobody was put down to put Chicago up. Heck, I'm fully aware that Chicago got The Ultimate Core because New York never wanted one (and benefited greatly from its lack)

Point being.....there will never be (IM-Less*than*humble-O) a core like Chicago's. Anywhere. Ever. Case closed. This is it, folks. Chicago's facts-on-the-incredible-ground have this one firmly nailed in place. The irony to fight for one downtown core. I'm jealous I didn't come up with that one myself.

Last edited by edsg25; 11-18-2018 at 08:58 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 08:54 AM
 
9,382 posts, read 9,532,267 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Ah, the thinking man, the guru, managed to nail this one down tight in less than ten words. What Dave said is the answer; all the rest is commentary.

and, what did Dave get from so identifying: the absolutely best, most spectacular, most core-like core, the best center-of-everything, the true emerald city downtown/center city/core in America. Bare none. Hell, we could market that in "The City Second to None"

Competition simply does not exist. The only so called "competition" would be found in the lower two thirds of Manhattan and this long, incredibly linear stretch is no core. In fact, Manhattan never could be what it is if it had a solid core. Manhattan was blessed by this linearity because it could stick and few north-south subway lines underground and end up with everybody a few blocks away from any of them. Topography and geography offered New York a connectivity that is unmatched anywhere on this planet. And there would have been no New York without it; the ingredient was essential.

Only New York, among American cities, would find its core (Midtown) miles away from the original (downtown) core. Only New York could have a core whose main streets are given such large double digit numbers as 34th, 42nd, 57th. Only New York could have invented the word "downtown" because lower Manhattan was as down as you could get......yet along with Philly (Center City) is arguably one of only two US cities where the main core is a place not called "downtown." How's that for irony. New York "exported" the term downtown....and yet in San Francisco or Boston or Portland or Cleveland, downtown is about as far "up" as you can go.

New York's core works, and works so well, because it is.....well.....coreless. New York's non-core works so well that it can gladly concede to Chicago the title of The Ultimate Downtown Core in America.

Hell yes, Chicago. Ah, Chicago......the ultimate spoke-and-wheel, the ultimate concentric rings that would put a redwood to shame.

Our core was pinpointed. And spread outward from it. Our downtown managed to mix lake with river and a flatness one could die for (the ultimate palette for core urban development) with happily not a hill in sight (you see, Chicago is to flatness what San Francisco is to hills....and, as such, both are about as good as it gets). And in this pinpointed spread are beach (and endless ocean spreads eastward, but it is the gentle kind and you actually can build right on it), park, retail, residential to the hilt, commercial, cultural (mind boggling culture...what city manages to pack the Art Institute, Museum of Contemporary Art, History Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Field Museum, Adler Planetarium into its very center?)

Gosh, I need to stop: this guy is beginning (?) to sound like the ultimate homer, and rather obnoxiously I may add simply because....well...quite frankly......he is. Mea culpa. You don't have to berate me. I'm on to my flaws. And please note though homer-he-may-be, you will not find a single insult or beration (yea, I invented the term: live with it) of any other city. Nobody was put down to put Chicago up.

Point being.....there will never be (IM-Less*than*humble-O) a core like Chicago's. Anywhere. Ever. Case closed. This is it, folks. Chicago's facts-on-the-incredible-ground have this one firmly nailed in place. The irony to fight for one downtown core. I'm jealous I didn't come up with that one myself.
Interestingly Downtown in Nantucket actually means East. So Downtown is actually the ruralest part of Town. It comes from seafaring it’s downwind same reason the Cape and Maine’s “Down” is Northeast.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 10:47 AM
 
2,006 posts, read 1,013,828 times
Reputation: 2667
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
once again, I will cling to the notion that adjacent areas to what was once downtown now are downtown. Third Ward today very much is downtown. What would someone identify as the "heart of downtown Milwaukee"? for me, it would probably be the stretch of Wisconsin Avenue stretching both east and (a bit more heavily) west of the Milwaukee River.

The Third Ward is, maybe, a half mile walk south of that stretch of road. It is downtown. If I were staying at the Pfister and I said to my wife, "let's take a little walk and get a variety of tasty treats to bring back to our room, I'd say the Milwaukee Public Market in the Third Ward would be a very good choice.
Yes, I kind of agree. But, I mentioned the Third Ward in another thread, as being a part of downtown, and another poster chose to tell me it was not. You can't win.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,796,055 times
Reputation: 11136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Miami's Brickell financial district just across the river from downtown.
Brickell people in particular want to consider it separately from DT Miami, but I don't. Midtown/Wynwood is a different story though. That feels like a different/emerging downtown to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Upper West Side, Manhattan, NYC
14,798 posts, read 19,003,355 times
Reputation: 6800
For people who know Chicago, what do you think of West Loop/Fulton Market (the part west of the expressway) as an emerging 2nd downtown? It's a weird one because it's in the "greater downtown area" but people wouldn't consider it really downtown. In the last 5-7 years it's been booming - many companies have moved there, many restaurants/bars, hotels opened/being built, high rises, tons of new residential units, etc.

Offices to open in the last 5 or so years:
* McDonald's global HQ
* Google
* Chicago SunTimes
* SRAM global HQ
* Dyson (vacuums, air movers, etc) US HQ
* WPP moving their entire Chicago workforce into the currently U/C 20+ story Gr333n office building.
* Numerous co-working spaces including WeWork (I think a 2nd WeWork in the making)
* McDonald's vendors (in the vendor village)
* Foursquare
* Glassdoor

Many other smaller companies have moved there. Hotels like SoHo House and Ace Hotel have opened there with others currently under construction and not far from being finished like Hoxton Hotel, Nobu, Hyatt, and Equinox (not U/C but the others are). A ton of housing has been added with new high rises in the pipeline including 3 or 4 more office high rises next to the currently U/C office building Gr333n.

It's a weird thing, but I think due to the expressway, it provides a natural break. The area seems to be an emerging kind of 2nd "downtown" even if it's right next door. I don't think most people consider it downtown, but who knows in 15 years. The breakage is quite a bit different from the river.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, The Magic City
2,887 posts, read 2,004,416 times
Reputation: 1905
I live in Brickell and have always considered it part of downtown Miami as well...Miami Beach (especially South Beach, but the entire area up to Bal Harbour) is urban and could easily be considered a separate downtown area in its own right from the mainland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
Brickell people in particular want to consider it separately from DT Miami, but I don't. Midtown/Wynwood is a different story though. That feels like a different/emerging downtown to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
Yes, I kind of agree. But, I mentioned the Third Ward in another thread, as being a part of downtown, and another poster chose to tell me it was not. You can't win.
Sorry. And of course i agree with “can’t win”

Chicago and Milwaukee share a lot in common, befitting major cities (not in the same metro area) a mere 90 miles apart (nothing that close exists outside the norteast corridor)

We face out onto the same great lake and our downtowns both occupy the east central part of our city.
We differ in that downtown Chicago is on a NS axis, Milwaukee on an EW one. And the Third Ward, as pr viouly stated, is a couple blocks from the center of the linear access.

That is why at least IMHO the Third Ward is downtown
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,853 posts, read 6,524,415 times
Reputation: 5336
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
For people who know Chicago, what do you think of West Loop/Fulton Market (the part west of the expressway) as an emerging 2nd downtown? It's a weird one because it's in the "greater downtown area" but people wouldn't consider it really downtown. In the last 5-7 years it's been booming - many companies have moved there, many restaurants/bars, hotels opened/being built, high rises, tons of new residential units, etc.

Offices to open in the last 5 or so years:
* McDonald's global HQ
* Google
* Chicago SunTimes
* SRAM global HQ
* Dyson (vacuums, air movers, etc) US HQ
* WPP moving their entire Chicago workforce into the currently U/C 20+ story Gr333n office building.
* Numerous co-working spaces including WeWork (I think a 2nd WeWork in the making)
* McDonald's vendors (in the vendor village)
* Foursquare
* Glassdoor

Many other smaller companies have moved there. Hotels like SoHo House and Ace Hotel have opened there with others currently under construction and not far from being finished like Hoxton Hotel, Nobu, Hyatt, and Equinox (not U/C but the others are). A ton of housing has been added with new high rises in the pipeline including 3 or 4 more office high rises next to the currently U/C office building Gr333n.

It's a weird thing, but I think due to the expressway, it provides a natural break. The area seems to be an emerging kind of 2nd "downtown" even if it's right next door. I don't think most people consider it downtown, but who knows in 15 years. The breakage is quite a bit different from the river.
If the Loop is able to feed off of the great rail terminals west of the river, it is pretty clear that Fulton Market feeds off the same two to the east.

One downtown.

Chicago is the most unicore city in America. By far. Chicagoland itself is the most unicored metro in America. By far and adversely so if you look at suburban Chicago. What are our suburban “cores”: certainly Oakbrook and Schumburg althoufg neither is a real super core. Maybe even the oxymoronic high tech corridor of which Oakbrook is a part.

Sure Rose ont, but that core is a sharing of space between Rosemont, Chicago, Park Ridge, etc and is really nothing more than Downtown O’Hare.

Real city downtowns that might be considered a core with critical mass: Evanston. But its core status comes with its prized location, just north of the city and on the lake. And while its public transit advantages are huge, auto access is decidedly not. What municipality of 75,000 do you no with no expy access? Besides, I doubt If DT EV would be that big without Northwestern.

So that leaves Chicago. One core. Could another exist maybe. Maybe not. And no point is even definable today.

Maybe Hyde Park on a reived south side lakefront could become one. I don’t doubt the gap between McCormick place and HP will fill in. And maybe the effect of the U of C on Hyde Park would parralel NU’s on Evanston.

Short of that: Im clueless. Maybe Jeff Park where Metra and CTA converge. Or enough of the quite formidble Midway could create a O’Hare kind of core.

So it looks like it pretty much remains: Greater Downtown Chicago
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2018, 04:01 PM
 
164 posts, read 128,448 times
Reputation: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
If the Loop is able to feed off of the great rail terminals west of the river, it is pretty clear that Fulton Market feeds off the same two to the east.

One downtown.

Chicago is the most unicore city in America. By far. Chicagoland itself is the most unicored metro in America. By far and adversely so if you look at suburban Chicago. What are our suburban “cores”: certainly Oakbrook and Schumburg althoufg neither is a real super core. Maybe even the oxymoronic high tech corridor of which Oakbrook is a part.

Sure Rose ont, but that core is a sharing of space between Rosemont, Chicago, Park Ridge, etc and is really nothing more than Downtown O’Hare.

Real city downtowns that might be considered a core with critical mass: Evanston. But its core status comes with its prized location, just north of the city and on the lake. And while its public transit advantages are huge, auto access is decidedly not. What municipality of 75,000 do you no with no expy access? Besides, I doubt If DT EV would be that big without Northwestern.

So that leaves Chicago. One core. Could another exist maybe. Maybe not. And no point is even definable today.

Maybe Hyde Park on a reived south side lakefront could become one. I don’t doubt the gap between McCormick place and HP will fill in. And maybe the effect of the U of C on Hyde Park would parralel NU’s on Evanston.

Short of that: Im clueless. Maybe Jeff Park where Metra and CTA converge. Or enough of the quite formidble Midway could create a O’Hare kind of core.

So it looks like it pretty much remains: Greater Downtown Chicago

I think the recently approves "78" mega project with due wonders in unifing the South loop with downtown core even more seamlessly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top