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Old 11-17-2018, 10:43 AM
 
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I'd classify Seattle as:

Greater Downtown:
--Old CBD plus new CBD wing in Denny Triangle
--Fringe districts including Belltown, Lower Queen Anne, South Lake Union, a chunk of Capitol Hill, First Hill, the ID, and Pioneer Square...these are all connected to the CBD by continuous urbanity.

University District:
--The actual district and the UW campus...the second largest center of true urbanity in the area, and booming (finally highrises allowed again, and a subway station opening in 2021). This isn't huge for all of the downtown-type functions (not a ton of offices for example) but it's traditional urbanity and filling in quickly.

Downtown Bellevue:
--Main street from the pre-war village, plus the all-new main Downtown. Also getting grade-separated rail (2023). It's been growing in a true urban format for 32 years or so (parking below grade, buildings up to the sidewalk with retail, maybe 30-40 highrises, etc.). The volume of walkable offices is pretty impressive, and it has a large resident population.

Downtown Tacoma would count but that's a little far.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:11 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
University District:
--The actual district and the UW campus...the second largest center of true urbanity in the area, and booming (finally highrises allowed again, and a subway station opening in 2021). This isn't huge for all of the downtown-type functions (not a ton of offices for example) but it's traditional urbanity and filling in quickly.
MH, why were highrises prohibited prior?

Good analysis, BTW.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:33 AM
 
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I consider Manhattan south of 57 Street (that includes both Midtown and Downtown) as one big downtown area, equivalent to London's "Central Activities Zone" (CAZ), which contains separate "downtown" areas like the West End and the City of London. Aside from this, there are three other "CAZ Satellites", which function like a CAZ, but are not geographically near it. So Downtown NY + Midtown = Central New York.

Aside from the CAZ satellites are the numerous Metropolitan and Major Centres around the city, which have extensive office space for SMEs and local businesses. Two of the CAZ Satellites, namely Canary Wharf and Stratford, are currently classified as Metropolitan Centres. Some of the Major Centres are probably even bigger than the downtown of some American mid-sized city.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ilovelondon View Post
I consider Manhattan south of 57 Street (that includes both Midtown and Downtown) as one big downtown area, equivalent to London's "Central Activities Zone" (CAZ), which contains separate "downtown" areas like the West End and the City of London. Aside from this, there are three other "CAZ Satellites", which function like a CAZ, but are not geographically near it. So Downtown NY + Midtown = Central New York.

Aside from the CAZ satellites are the numerous Metropolitan and Major Centres around the city, which have extensive office space for SMEs and local businesses. Two of the CAZ Satellites, namely Canary Wharf and Stratford, are currently classified as Metropolitan Centres. Some of the Major Centres are probably even bigger than the downtown of some American mid-sized city.
Umm duh? London in America would probably have a 13-14 million person MSA so wouldn't you expect its secondary centers to be larger than Downtown Cincinnati or Indianpolis that are 1/7th the size?
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Iconographer View Post
MH, why were highrises prohibited prior?

Good analysis, BTW.
Thanks.

The City of Seattle has prohibited highrises outside the greater Downtown area for decades. This was a reaction to some scattered projects in the 60s and early 70s...some sort of visceral thing about highrises being bad. It was classic NIMBY, though the highrises of that era tended to be pretty bad, often built like fortresses and with parking dominating at the bases.

In the U-District the three main existing highrises date to 1932, 1974, and 1975...the ban might have been around then. Also the UW has a few highrises.

Today, we still restrict highrises tremendously. Every major building that gets built in Seattle goes to the very edge of the allowable mass, whether the limiting factor is height limits (all projects) or floor area ratio (commercial only). There have been some upzones in greater Downtown. The U-District upzoned in the past year, triggering a wave of proposals, one of which is now underway (24-story residential). Also the UW itself is finalizing a campus master plan that involves some potential highrises.
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Old 11-17-2018, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Umm duh? London in America would probably have a 13-14 million person MSA so wouldn't you expect its secondary centers to be larger than Downtown Cincinnati or Indianpolis that are 1/7th the size?
It's ok for someone to mention points that you might find obvious.
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Northeast states
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovelondon View Post
I consider Manhattan south of 57 Street (that includes both Midtown and Downtown) as one big downtown area, equivalent to London's "Central Activities Zone" (CAZ), which contains separate "downtown" areas like the West End and the City of London. Aside from this, there are three other "CAZ Satellites", which function like a CAZ, but are not geographically near it. So Downtown NY + Midtown = Central New York.

Aside from the CAZ satellites are the numerous Metropolitan and Major Centres around the city, which have extensive office space for SMEs and local businesses. Two of the CAZ Satellites, namely Canary Wharf and Stratford, are currently classified as Metropolitan Centres. Some of the Major Centres are probably even bigger than the downtown of some American mid-sized city.
Greenwich Village, Soho a Downtown area ?
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:19 PM
 
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By the standards of any other NA city, those are definitely like subdistricts of a greater downtown area. Not CBD of course.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:50 PM
 
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Downtown 2.0: a whole expansion of CBD by at least almost twice or doubling it by building in a former wasteland or industrial area of downtown. Good examples: 1. Downtown San Diego-East Village due to Petco Park 2. Downtown Portland-Pearl District 3. Downtown Seattle-Denny Triangle and Lake Union due to Amazon and 4. Downtown Denver-Lower Downtown due to Union station/Coors Ballpark
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago
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Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Wow, one city claiming only 1 ..... and wants it kept that way. One city might be 3 .... might be 5? Guess if someone says 8, maybe 8 will be found. Maybe every neighborhood intersection of retail and offices.... can be a downtown too.

A city can have multiple CBD's. But I'm not going to see them each as a downtown. If one is Medical center district and offices, research facilities with residents. It can be a Business District. But another downtown.... I wouldn't say so. Maybe another with more retail, malls and some nightlife. Then a area of some Colleges with aspects to support them and a campus.

But for Chicago mentioned ..... I agree it is just ONE DOWNTOWN, CBD AND CORE. But what a ONE Downtown it is.

Chicago City Portal .... showing its official ONE CBD.

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Facil...rict/tksj-nvsw

The OP in the past .... argued the areas North of Chicago's Loop. Were not part of downtown. Now River North a part of this section North of Chicago's Loop area. He sees as another downtown in function over part of one today .... long with Streeterville the other part of the ONE DOWNTOWN and CBD plus a small portion of the Gold Coast neighborhood. East of the Loop besides the city's front lawn of 3-parks together. Also has another new neighborhood of offices and skyscraper living. It gets placed with the Loop today as south of the Chicago river also called Lakeshore East. Aging ALL ONE DWNTOWN and CBD.

These pictures shows parts of Streeterville and River North,
with the Loop being in the background of some. ALL ONE DOWNTOWN
Of course it is one incredibly big downtown, a downtown big enough that it comes in the form of many neighborhoods.

Why the sense that downtown Chicago is something smaller in the mix, that CBD=Downtown? That's because geography and topography worked together to create what is arguably the most definable CBD in the nation. And if that were not the case, the only places I can think that would compare with it would be Lower Manhattan and the Golden Triangle, both of which by rivers (Hudson and East in the former, Allegheny and Mongahela in the later) created a true point that enclosed downtown.

Chicago's traditional downtown, the neighborhood that was synonymous with downtown (even though it really wasn't) is the Loop. Actually island like, this tight piece of real state has water borders (Lake Michigan to the east, Chicago River to the north and west) and one non-water border of separation (south loop rail yards of old). Why was Chicago at the forefront of skyscraper development: precious Loop real estate forced things to go up and go high to grow.

It is highly defined, distinctively and famously named and iconic and the Loop grabbed the title of downtown for ages even though, as I stated earlier, it hadn't been the sum total of "downtown" for ages. Truth is that with the opening of the Michigan Avenue bridge in 1920 and with it Michigan Avenue extended and widened north of the river and it replaced nondescript "Pine Street", the Mag Mile environs were well on the way to being part of downtown Chicago. By the 1970s (the time when urban decay had shaken the Loop's lofty position, the Mag Mile exploded with high rise new construction and the genteel carriage trade street became a high end luxury power. The opening of Water Tower Place in the 70s changed everything and with it, downtown sprouted two tall Marshall Field's stores, on State and now very much on Michigan. This was the era we started to talk about as the Super Loop. During this explosive era, Chicago was able to do what no other city would have been able to do: capitalize on the surprising large swaths of rail land on the outskirts of the Loop and turn them into massively developed parts of downtown. Indeed the very two major commuter rail stations (Union Station and N'western/Ogilvie) west of the river spiked its surrounds as business desirable. The Loop had jumped the river.

High central city land prices on the Mag Mile forced the large complex of art galleries to move from Michigan Avenue, to the west, into the warehouse district of River North....which became from of downtown in exceedingly short time. And on and on....to the south, the growing complex of McCormick Place and the development of air rights allowed for the spectacular high rise of the South Loop. And downtown jumped another landmark, the Kennedy Expy, west to Greektown and beyond, an area percolating with new business, very high tech and innovative.

And then on to today where the most interesting phenomenium works to make Downtown. Dave is right: this is super-downtown-on-steroids. And another vaunted asset is tying the parts of the whole in an incredible way, strengthening the bonds and creating a district working as one.

The catalyst: the old sewer is being turned into a river of gold. The Chicago River in some kind of mind boggling way has appeared to have gained parity with the best and one of the most highly praised waterfronts in urban America: Lake Michigan. River and Lake both define Chicago. And the hottest property in the core these days is the developmental corridors that line the main, north, and south branches of the river where mega projects are afoot, connections fortified (think expansion of water taxis through the opening new areas of the north and south branch).

I have always realized that my "borders" of downtown Chicago tend to be well titled to the wide end, but in many ways, I do see downtown Chicago (or Central Chicago, or Core Chicago, or the Greater Loop) traveling south from Lincoln Park's southern boundary at North Avenue in the Gold Coast, down the lakefront past the near north side and the Loop and pushing south to McCormick Place (now in an area rebranded as "McCormick Square" where critical mass is speeding along (new arena, new hotels, renovation of the old Motor Row showroom areas). So if I give it from North Ave. to Cermak on a north/south basis, I'll go with Lake Michigan to arguably west through the Westgate/Fulton Mkt district to feel comfortable calling both the United Center and the medical center as being the periphery of the downtown.....while again fully admitting that my limits tend towards the extreme side. But no matter how you define its limits, it is an incredible city core today by any standard.
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