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Old 12-29-2018, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon (in Transition)
884 posts, read 440,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Not sure your criteria here. Can a city once be Rust Belt, but diversify and no longer be in the category? I would define it as so:

In Rust Belt but never Rust Belt:
Columbus
Madison
Des Moines
Indianapolis

Once considered Rust Belt but no longer fit criteria:
Chicago (There is still ample evidence of Chicago's Rust Belt roots all over the south side)
Grand Rapids
Minneapolis/St. Paul
Allentown
Most NE seaboard cities
Fort Wayne
Milwaukee


Showing signs of recovery
Cincinatti
Pittsburgh
Lansing

Starting recovery process
Cleveland
Detroit
Dayton

Cities in the Sunbelt that don't fit the Sunbelt criteria:
New Orleans
Memphis
Birmingham
Little Rock
Jackson MS
Montgomery
Louisville (Louisville is an interesting case it has a lot of rust belt qualities with decline(until city/county consolidation) and a history of heavy industry. It arguably sits on the Rust/Sun belt border not sure where it would belong.
Tucson - I doubt Tucson would ever cross peoples mind to be added to a the "in Sun Belt, but not Sun belt list". Tucson is the home to a major state flagship university, and is located in growth juggernaut Arizona. Yet its population growth is slower than Midwestern metros like Grand Rapids, Omaha, Des Moines, and Madison, and its economic growth barely registers. To me Tucson's numbers over the last 20 years would qualify it for this category.
The only city/metro area in Minnesota that is/was ever considered in the Rust Belt is Duluth. Some get their panties in a bunch over that even.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,580 posts, read 17,553,447 times
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There are many parts of Indianapolis that were based on heavy industry and have the bombed out, Rust Belt look.

I live in a very manufacturing/mining dependent area in south-central Appalachia. We have far more in common with Flint than we do with Nashville.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:06 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,820 posts, read 12,324,125 times
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I've never thought of Minneapolis or Louisville as Rust Belt cities or even close to the Rust Belt region. Louisville is neither Rust Belt nor Sunbelt to me. I don't include the entire South in the Sunbelt.....most of Virginia, West Virginia and East Tennessee aren't Sunbelt either.

I don't think there's any overlap between Rust Belt and Sun Belt. Southern West Virginia, extreme Western MD (near Cumberland) and eastern Kentucky can be where the Rust Belt extends into the South but these are too cold to be Sunbelt.

Baltimore is an outpost of the Rust Belt separated from other Rust Belt cities, but its not Sunbelt either due to its northerly location. I see Philadelphia and Newark as Rust Belt outliers too.

I still think Columbus OH truly stands out among its neighbors. I also never viewed Cincinnati as an exclusively industrial city like Detroit, Flint, Akron, Pittsburgh, Erie, Buffalo, South Bend, etc. Not sure about Indianapolis it seems diversified but has also lost a lot of industrial jobs, but it never had the Rust Belt vibe of its neighbors either.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
1,525 posts, read 706,394 times
Reputation: 1964
New Mexico is seeing remarkably little success compared to other Western states - meager growth and, especially, rapid brain drain.
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Old 12-30-2018, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,100 posts, read 4,733,270 times
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In the NY branch of the rust belt the city of Ithaca has transformed completely from its rusty days. Its character and appearance are like an entirely different city from even the 1990's.

Conversely, Elmira and Binghamton are still pretty beat up.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:43 AM
 
3,960 posts, read 3,490,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I still think Columbus OH truly stands out among its neighbors. I also never viewed Cincinnati as an exclusively industrial city like Detroit, Flint, Akron, Pittsburgh, Erie, Buffalo, South Bend, etc. Not sure about Indianapolis it seems diversified but has also lost a lot of industrial jobs, but it never had the Rust Belt vibe of its neighbors either.
Detroit was and is also a corporate hub. Calling it an exclusively industrial city is a misapplication of the term Rustbelt. There is a reason why it's metropolitan area is gaining residents, where some of it's more healthy "Rustbelt peers" are not.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:59 AM
 
21,188 posts, read 30,359,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
Cities in Georgia like Macon, Columbus and Augusta kind of stick out in my opinion. They sort of seem poised to take off in terms of size and location, but really aren't for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Those cities all lack an engine or "IT" factor that would generate significant growth.

Columbus has the strongest corporate presence of them all (with Aflac, Char-Broil, TSYS and Synovus), but they're all either slow growth or relatively small companies and not really recruiting a ton of college graduates from outside the region for employment. The city is also hamstrung by poor interstate highway connectivity being at the terminus of I-185, thus gets passed up for manufacturing/logistic development in favor of cities along I-85 or I-75, near Atlanta.

There's also Fort Benning, but employment/investment there is extremely cyclical, depending on the Federal/DoD budget for that year.
That was kind of my point. They do lack an "it" factor but given their location and already sizable presence it would seem more might have happened by now given growth in other medium-sized Sunbelt cities.
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,501 posts, read 2,324,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Columbus, Ohio stands out among its Rust Belt neighbors as a predominantly prosperous, white collar city with very little industrial history. Cincinnati marginally so, compared to areas like Cleveland, Akron, Toledo, Detroit, Erie PA, etc. Chicago, despite all its urban ills, also isn't a Rust Belt city in my opinion due to its massive and diversified economy, though most of its neighbors are Rust Belt. Not sure about Indianapolis.
I live in the Indy metro area. We survived thanks in part due to a more diversified economy vs just having heavy auto industry. Lots of good paying jobs lost here with the loss of manufacturing. However, lots of tech jobs replaced those jobs. Downside is that those jobs require advanced education compared to just simple logic on how to run a press, drill in a screw, etc.. Our state's smaller cities and towns didn't do as well. Many of them are having serious issues with poverty that they'd never seen before. Lots of younger people who are lucky to get out have no plans to move back. Once the UAW pension and social security folks have all passed away, I'm not sure what those places will become.

I've visited Cincinnati a few times. I've always liked their downtown area along the river. The problem is that they are still in the snow belt and people looking to escape to more mild climates usually want to head further south. Indianapolis has a bland topography compared to Cincinnati. Chicago is a league of it's own, but also has serious issues with poverty, debt load, etc..

Louisville is interesting. I've mostly only driven through the area. Seems to be on an upswing from what I hear. Winters aren't as bad as Indy or Cinci when talking temps and snow.

Last edited by indy_317; 12-30-2018 at 05:42 AM..
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,501 posts, read 2,324,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Well, Louisville is considered a Southern city, along with the state as a whole. For what it's worth, north central Alabama is a quite properous area that's located in the Sunbelt. It, and Baldwin County on the Gulf, are really the only properserous areas in the entire state.
Louisville/KY does feel "southern" to me and I think that is because of their more mild winters. N. KY near Cincinnati though still feels northern/rust belt until one gets further south towards Lexington. I've driven through Alabama once on the way to Florida. Also went to a wedding that was at Cheaha State Park. I really enjoyed the Oxford-Anniston area as well as the national forest. I had no idea that the Appalachian range went that far south. As one who enjoys day hiking and being outdoors, I was impressed by the area. Too small to offer good employment for my wife and I, but overall not a bad place from what I saw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Haven't read the entire thread, but how do you define Sunbelt? All those places are geographically in the sunbelt, but if the meaning is prosperity and growth...
I think we are just talking about geographic areas. Sunbelt being those areas that usually have more mild winter seasons. Some will have more extreme winter weather events, but only because of the elevation of the mountains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I've never thought of Minneapolis or Louisville as Rust Belt cities or even close to the Rust Belt region. Louisville is neither Rust Belt nor Sunbelt to me. I don't include the entire South in the Sunbelt.....most of Virginia, West Virginia and East Tennessee aren't Sunbelt either.

I don't think there's any overlap between Rust Belt and Sun Belt. Southern West Virginia, extreme Western MD (near Cumberland) and eastern Kentucky can be where the Rust Belt extends into the South but these are too cold to be Sunbelt.
I've always felt that the "rust belt" mainly consists of the Chicago area extended south and south east, then east through Indiana, Ohio, up into Michigan, etc.. Basically where most of the factory concentration was. I've never really visited Minneapolis outside of a few layovers. Over the years, what I did read up on the city, I've never considered it "rust belt." As a lifetime Indy resident, Louisville is close enough to Indy and Cinci that I've always felt it was part of the rust belt, but also considered it "southern" and more of a sunbelt city when it came to winter weather. It is truly kinda a mix city, but the entire Ohio River region has a rust belt feel, if only due to the barges that give it an industrial feel.

To me E. Tennessee is sunbelt. Knoxville and Nashville have similar winters in terms of snowfall and temps. The winters are there, but mild. The only reason some other areas experience really cold winters and/or large snow events is because of the elevation.
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:55 AM
 
3,215 posts, read 1,548,768 times
Reputation: 2347
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Louisville/KY does feel "southern" to me and I think that is because of their more mild winters. N. KY near Cincinnati though still feels northern/rust belt until one gets further south towards Lexington. I've driven through Alabama once on the way to Florida. Also went to a wedding that was at Cheaha State Park. I really enjoyed the Oxford-Anniston area as well as the national forest. I had no idea that the Appalachian range went that far south. As one who enjoys day hiking and being outdoors, I was impressed by the area. Too small to offer good employment for my wife and I, but overall not a bad place from what I saw.



I think we are just talking about geographic areas. Sunbelt being those areas that usually have more mild winter seasons. Some will have more extreme winter weather events, but only because of the elevation of the mountains.



I've always felt that the "rust belt" mainly consists of the Chicago area extended south and south east, then east through Indiana, Ohio, up into Michigan, etc.. Basically where most of the factory concentration was. I've never really visited Minneapolis outside of a few layovers. Over the years, what I did read up on the city, I've never considered it "rust belt." As a lifetime Indy resident, Louisville is close enough to Indy and Cinci that I've always felt it was part of the rust belt, but also considered it "southern" and more of a sunbelt city when it came to winter weather. It is truly kinda a mix city, but the entire Ohio River region has a rust belt feel, if only due to the barges that give it an industrial feel.

To me E. Tennessee is sunbelt. Knoxville and Nashville have similar winters in terms of snowfall and temps. The winters are there, but mild. The only reason some other areas experience really cold winters and/or large snow events is because of the elevation.
I think you forgot Milwaukee to start. It was always in the Rust-Belt too. But many cities even have long abandoned mills .... that look as much as the stereotypical Rust-Belt scenes as they do.

They can be in any region America.
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